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Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ?

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On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 05:31:16 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> Alas Python is no longer "real" ... lives in a horrible "virtual
> environment" that seems to lock out a lot of useful stuff "for your
> safety".

I started using venvs long ago but it is getting more painful. One thing 
I've started doing is

python3 -m venv foo --system-site-packages

At least on Linux it's symlinks and not copying all the files. That saves 
a lot of annoyances. After activating 

pip freeze -l > requirements.txt

You should do that anytime you install something with pip.  The '-l' will 
only list what you've installed in that environment. Without it lists all 
the system packages too.

I've been burned when a distro upgrade introduces a new Python version or 
if I want to move a venv. After creating a new venv and activating

pip install -r requirements.txt 

pulls in everything you'd installed in the original. Then you can blow it 
away. 

Sometimes 'sudo apt install python3-some_package' works and adds it to the 
system packages but it doesn't work for a lot of them. 

There are some other flags that are useful like 'pip install foo --
upgrade'

I've also been playing with uv.

https://docs.astral.sh/uv/

It makes it easier to work with multiple Python versions, like nvm for 
multiple node.js versions.  I haven't tried it on the Fedora box but the 
upgrade to 43 installed Python 3.14. Fine and dandy except the maintainers 
of PySide6 and some other packages hadn't upgraded to work with 3.14.  It 
took me a while to figure out the problem from the errors thrown by pip 
install.

All in all the environments are a good thing. I think virtualenv will 
still work although venv is preferred. 

Personally I stay away from conda. There are packages that aren't 
available from conda-forge and it doesn't play very well with a normal 
Python install. 

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Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-08 05:31 -0400
  Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 18:57 +0000
    Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 19:54 +0000
      Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 21:44 +0000
        Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 22:05 +0000
          Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-09 00:27 +0000
            Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-08 21:14 -0400
              Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-09 02:47 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-03-09 02:59 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-09 00:23 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-09 03:55 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-09 00:28 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-03-09 08:16 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 13:59 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-10 02:49 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-10 08:47 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-10 06:14 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-03-10 14:55 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-10 13:03 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-03-10 17:09 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-11 02:48 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-11 07:32 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-11 08:40 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Gilmeh Serda <gilmeh.serda@nothing.here.invalid> - 2026-03-13 06:07 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-13 02:48 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-03-11 11:58 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-10 17:56 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-03-10 18:13 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 23:51 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Piergiorgio Sartor <piergiorgio.sartor.this.should.not.be.used@nexgo.REMOVETHIS.de> - 2026-03-10 19:14 +0100
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2026-03-11 17:14 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-03-11 20:19 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Piergiorgio Sartor <piergiorgio.sartor.this.should.not.be.used@nexgo.REMOVETHIS.de> - 2026-03-11 21:51 +0100
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-11 21:35 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-12 02:14 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-12 02:11 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-12 10:39 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-12 20:51 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-03-13 09:34 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-13 21:49 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-03-13 23:28 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-14 01:17 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-14 03:21 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-14 12:23 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-14 19:18 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 19:36 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 18:26 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-09 00:03 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:59 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:52 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-09 16:34 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 22:17 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-10 02:38 -0400
              Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:41 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 09:45 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-10 06:21 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 18:24 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-11 04:20 -0400
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-03-11 18:52 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-11 19:39 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-03-11 20:14 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-11 23:00 +0000
                Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-03-10 15:02 +0000
            Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-09 01:36 +0000
            Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:36 +0000
          Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 01:34 +0000
            Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-08 22:11 -0400
              Re: Defeat Python "Virtual Environment" in Fedora ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:26 +0000

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