Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ?

From	D <nospam@example.net>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ?
Date	2024-12-21 12:22 +0100
Organization	i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID	<24e26402-3628-d867-13fc-086ef5af8e29@example.net> (permalink)
References	(17 earlier) <UQKdnUKJir8UNf76nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@earthlink.com> <b5592fc5-3197-31cf-ac59-8a44e7db1ea3@example.net> <SLicnU51cs7fkvj6nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <lsln9nFbe1iU1@mid.individual.net> <t9mcnch_qe5p8Pv6nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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On Sat, 21 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/20/24 12:19 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 01:31:30 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>>     It's the 'hand-wave' thing that sunk the first AI paradigm.
>>>     Marv Minsky (who posted on usenet for awhile) and friends saw how
>>>     easily 'decisions' could be done with a transistor or two and assumed
>>>     it would thus be easy to build an AI. AC Clarke used the Minsky
>>>     optimism when fashioning the idea of "HAL".
>> 
>> Minsky threw a wrench in the works with his 9169 'Perceptrons'. He had
>> tried to implement B. F. skinner's operant condition with a analog lashup
>> that sort of worked if the vacuum tubes didn't burn out. Rosenblatt has
>> built a 'Perceptron' and Minsky pointed out original design couldn't
>> handle an XOR. That sent research down another rabbit hole.
>> 
>> By the '80s the original perceptron had evolved into a multilayer network
>> train by back propagation. When I played around with it 'Parallel
>> Distributed Processing' by Rumelhart and McClelland was THE book.
>> 
>> https://direct.mit.edu/books/monograph/4424/Parallel-Distributed-
>> Processing-Volume
>> 
>> The ideas were fascinating but the computing power wasn't there. Most of
>> what I learned then is still relevant to TensorFlow and the other neural
>> network approaches except now there are the $30,000 Nvidia GPUs to do the
>> heavy lifting.
>> 
>> The '80s neural networks weren't practical so the focus shifted to expert
>> systems until they petered out. The boom and bust cycles led to the term
>> 'AI Winter'
>> 
>> https://www.techtarget.com/searchenterpriseai/definition/AI-winter
>> 
>> I think something worthwhile will come from this cycle but ultimately it
>> won't be the LLMs that are getting all the hype.
>
>  With Minsky and friends it was just naive enthusiasm ...
>  it was SO EASY to do logic and thus it seemed SO EASY
>  to wire bits of it together and get an 'intelligence'.
>
>  The same gen also promised us those flying cars and
>  luxury Mars living by 1999 .......
>
>  IMHO, if we're gonna get anything largely indistinguishable
>  from 'sentience' these days it'll be the next few gens of
>  LLMs. You can argue it'd be "fake" - but if you fake something
>  WELL ENOUGH it's not fake anymore. LLMs and near derivs are
>  where the HUGE money is these days.
>
>  I did have a few posts with Minsky as his vision was
>  falling apart. He did admit that he'd totally underestimated
>  the problem. A few transistors did NOT replace 600 million
>  years of evolutionary experiments - 'intelligence'/'self'
>  was really deep/complex with endless fuzzy processing and
>  pattern matching steps between 'I' and 'O'.
>
>  However I still keep a copy of his "Society Of Mind"
>  as a reminder of yesterday's optimism. He THOUGHT
>  about it, TRIED ... and thus eventual failure was
>  not really a failure - it just inspired new directions.
>  There had to be a foundation to build on.
>
>  There was a short-lived UK series about androids
>  that eventually came to self-awareness (and the
>  hate/fear directed towards them). The idea there
>  was that 'self' was a sort of fractal, self-reflective,
>  kind of paradigm. I suspect they had something there.
>  Chat/LLMs maybe can't achieve that on their own, but
>  who says you can't splice on a few more methods ?
>  Organic brains seem to have LOTS of layers, lots
>  of 'little people' inside that merge into 'Me'.

I've also thought about this approach. We have OCR, we have voice 
recognition, we have chess, we have diagnosing cancers (OCR), we have 
parrots (LLMs) etc.

The "only" thing lacking is the integrating "ego"-layer that coordinates 
all these separate systems we've developed, and provides the AI with 
volition/initiative/independence.

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Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:36 +0100
  Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:32 +0000
    Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:11 +0100
      Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:02 +0000
        Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:15 +0100
          Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 02:16 +0000
            Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:42 +0100
              Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-15 12:56 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 17:59 +0100
              Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 18:41 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 23:01 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-16 03:57 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-16 10:38 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-16 20:36 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-17 10:22 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-17 21:23 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:19 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-19 00:00 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 11:04 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-20 01:31 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-20 10:57 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-20 11:25 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-20 15:59 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-20 17:24 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-20 22:22 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-21 03:09 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-21 12:25 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-22 02:30 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-22 12:22 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-23 01:34 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-20 21:43 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-21 11:59 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-21 13:14 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 19:52 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 19:28 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-22 11:40 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-20 17:19 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-20 22:21 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-21 03:00 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 20:52 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-21 02:27 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 07:54 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-21 08:56 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 20:06 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-22 11:43 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 20:47 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-23 12:12 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-23 21:09 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-24 12:47 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-24 20:00 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-24 22:54 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-21 12:23 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 20:32 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-22 11:50 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 20:35 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-23 12:09 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-23 20:38 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-23 22:19 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-24 01:48 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-24 15:15 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-24 20:39 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-24 22:57 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-25 00:43 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-25 12:21 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-25 19:40 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-25 22:52 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-26 02:56 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-26 12:44 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-26 18:53 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-26 19:51 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-27 00:39 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-27 17:37 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-26 22:41 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-27 05:53 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-27 23:44 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-28 10:38 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-28 16:20 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-27 12:27 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-27 23:51 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-28 10:42 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-27 12:13 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-27 18:06 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-28 01:16 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-28 00:02 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-28 06:09 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-28 02:31 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-28 10:50 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-28 17:08 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-27 17:46 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-23 21:13 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-24 01:43 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-24 12:51 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-21 12:22 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-21 13:19 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-21 23:20 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 19:07 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-21 23:21 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-19 10:19 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-20 01:33 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-16 11:56 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-16 14:31 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-16 14:07 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-16 19:43 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-16 20:28 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-17 10:21 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-17 10:13 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-17 21:03 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-18 09:53 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:15 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 23:01 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-16 04:10 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-16 10:41 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-16 21:07 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-17 10:38 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-16 21:38 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-17 03:07 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-17 10:55 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-17 20:34 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:04 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-17 10:53 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-17 21:28 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:20 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-18 21:38 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-18 23:55 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-19 07:46 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 11:01 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 10:44 +0100

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