Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.os.linux.embedded > #298
| From | "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.embedded |
| Subject | Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch |
| Date | 2012-08-05 14:38 -0400 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <jvmeic$6nc$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | <%iVSr.551997$Nc1.363298@fx33.am4><YNCdnQsXKMlyxIPNnZ2dnUVZ8kadnZ2d@lyse.net><4ltTr.501600$v24.296354@fx11.am4><4rGdne-OKde544PNnZ2dnUVZ8hSdnZ2d@lyse.net> <3jvcgx8ku4.fsf@news.eternal-september.org> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
"Hadron" <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote in message news:3jvcgx8ku4.fsf@news.eternal-september.org... > David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> writes: > >> On 05/08/12 14:06, 7 wrote: >>> David Brown wrote: >>> >>>> On 03/08/12 21:06, 7 wrote: >>>>> ARM boot technology going up a notch >>>>> ------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> ARM chips are constantly evolving. >>>>> So no two ARMs are really alike - always someone has added some >>>>> extra lines of VHDL code to add some more functions. >>>>> >>>>> The latest SoC feature an impressive array of functions >>>>> such as multiple cores, graphics accelerations, LCD controller, >>>>> HDMI interface, USB, USB OTH, SDCard, ethernet, camera interface, >>>>> SATA interface, RS232, ADC, sound, memory management unit, >>>>> DMA, SPI, CAN, RS232, Real time clock, etc, and ALL ON ONE CHIP!! >>>>> >>>>> The point being, the chip can connect to a lot of devices >>>>> with minimal add on chips and components. >>>>> >>>>> Notice the list includes a dedicated SDCard 2.0 interface >>>>> that allows the ARM chip to directly read an SDCard. >>>>> Some of these ARM chips have gone one step further >>>>> and also have extra pins to tell them to BOOT FROM SDCARD!!!! >>>>> >>>>> That changes everything!!! >>>>> >>>>> For the average embedded techie who creates products from thin air, >>>>> the way to program up an ARM is very expensive - they have >>>>> to buy a JTAG debugger and a commercial compiler that >>>>> works with that JTAG debugger to be able to do anything >>>>> useful. Or he can wait a few months to years for someone >>>>> in open source to catch up with the new chip with >>>>> open source OpenOCD JTAG debugger and Eclipse. >>>> >>>> JTAG debuggers are available for less than $50, or you can make them >>>> yourself. (More expensive devices have higher speeds and more >>>> functions, of course.) The most popular ARM toolchain is free (though >>>> again you can pay for more features, more support, etc., if you want). >>>> >>>> It is not a matter of "waiting for months or years" - support from >>>> OpenOCD and gcc normally arrives long before the chips. >>>> >>>> And while booting from an SDCard may be a new feature, microcontrollers >>>> and processors have supported multiple boot modes for decades. People >>>> who actually /work/ with these sorts of devices (as electronics >>>> developers and low-level programmers) have been happily booting from >>>> UARTs, Ethernet, CAN, SPI, QSPI, NAND flash, NOR flash, and a variety >>>> of >>>> other devices and data stores in addition to JTAG. >>> >>> Not virgin devices. Some kind of software has to be put in somewhere >>> to allow the devices to boot from UART, ethernet, CAN, etc. >>> >> >> I imagine you have never had experience of using microcontrollers. Yes, >> you >> have to have software to support booting from these devices - just as you >> need >> software to support booting from an SDCard. It is known as a "boot rom", >> and >> comes ready-programmed by the manufacturer. It is /exactly/ the same >> principle >> whether it boots from SDCard or any other source. >> >>>> Built-in boot rom support for SDCard is nothing revolutionary or >>>> dramatic. It's a nice feature to have, but that's it. >>> >>> It is revolutionary - not many have it with the booting features >>> enabled on virgin chips leaving the factory. >> >> Many do. All large microcontrollers have boot rom, as do a fair >> proportion of >> SOCs. Traditionally, processors do not have boot rom on the chip >> itself - but >> all cards will have a boot device (usually NOR flash), and all >> manufacturers >> will program this as part of the manufacturing process. >> >>> Reading the forums, I only come across second hand info >>> that the A10 and may be some TI/NXP chips as having it. >> >> The A10 is a processor core, not a chip. It has no boot rom of any >> kind - the >> issue does not make sense for a core. >> >> Most TI and NXP chips have boot roms, as do most chips from other >> manufacturers. >> >>> The tech specs seem to be a closely guarded >>> secret so still hunting for details. >> >> No, they are not "closely guarded secrets". For some chips, the >> manufacturers >> only sell to a few specific customers, and the datasheets are only >> available by >> contacting the company directly (Broadcom is like that). Since you can't >> buy >> their chips (unless you are ordering hundreds of thousands), you don't >> need the >> specs. For other chips that are easily available (such as from TI and >> NXP), the >> specs and boot details are easily available by looking on their websites. >> >>> Why they are hiding the info I don't understand because >>> all it does is hold back the sale of their own chips!! >>> >> >> They don't hide the info - you just don't know what you are looking for. >> >>> Hower chips with built in SDCard boot >>> which can be enabled by setting a pin high on a chip >>> changes everything because >> >> Again - you have no idea what you are talking about, and SDCard boot >> support >> does not "change everything". >> >>> previously you had to have a JTAG debugger and program the >>> internal boot rom with the boot loader code >> >> You can't program rom with a debugger, and you wouldn't need to because >> the rom >> is pre-programmed. >> >>> which can hold you back for months if you are new to a chip. >>> Now you don't need a JTAG debugger to program the chip with >>> a boot loader. A working gdb (if needed), an SCdard >>> and gcc/Eclipse is all that you need to have Linux running >>> on it without touching any of the internal flash. >>> That must be a massive revolution in chip design. >> >> Boot rom support for an SDCard is nice. But it is not something you >> would use >> in development - of preference, you would boot over Ethernet. >> >> For working with low-level development, your usual procedure is to get a >> flexible bootloader (such as uboot) into flash (probably using a jtag >> debugger, >> since they cost peanuts and no one doing low-level development would be >> without >> one - but possibly using a UART bootloader from the devices boot rom if >> that is >> more convenient). You use this bootloader to load the Linux kernel from >> a TFTP >> server, and mount root using NFS. >> >> No developer who valued his time would muck around with copying programs >> onto an >> SDCard for development - Ethernet is far faster, and far more convenient. >> >>> >>> The closest equivalent is ROM cartridges - but that is not >>> nearly the same as booting off an industry standard >>> and widely supported SDCard with gigabytes of storage. >>> > > Aha, You have met "7". "7" makes nanobots that can morph into solar > powered space gliders. He was also "european inventor of the year" and > has designed and implemented a real time transaction manager using > Gambas and mySQL which is capable of processing all the worlds financial > transactions in real time on a 486. He's a genius. So be careful with > the back chat..... > > NO, you guessed right. > > He's a total idiot. > Yes. He's a complete idiot which is why all of the "advocates" call him Mr. President. It's supposed to bother the trolls if they take the biggest dumbass moron they can find and elevate the idiot to "president." If the 7-tard had half a brain he wouldn't be gloating over his $50k salary that he's finally making at age fifty-something. His employer also considers him to be somewhat retarded. -- "I use Linux and open source tools for my every day job. Around $1100 per week." 7-tard. Drooling over the burger-flipping salary he makes with Linux. Sun, 22 Apr 2012 Message-ID: <G_Ykr.348244$xD4.289577@fx06.am4>
Back to comp.os.linux.embedded | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar
ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-03 20:06 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-08-05 13:32 +0200
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-05 13:06 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-08-05 16:07 +0200
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 15:38 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-05 16:11 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2012-08-05 14:38 -0400
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-05 15:46 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-08-05 21:06 +0200
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2012-08-05 15:26 -0400
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-05 20:46 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-05 20:59 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2012-08-06 08:15 +0200
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-08-06 14:11 +0000
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-08-06 22:37 +0200
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-06 07:47 -0500
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Big Steel <Run77712@Run77712.com> - 2012-08-06 08:52 -0400
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-05 20:35 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2012-08-06 08:09 +0200
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-06 20:43 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-08-06 22:44 +0200
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-06 22:14 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 22:41 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-06 22:51 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 22:58 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2012-08-06 23:31 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 00:51 +0200
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2012-08-06 19:30 -0400
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 01:36 +0200
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Foster <frankfoster50@yahoo.com> - 2012-08-06 20:14 -0400
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Scott Wood <scott@buserror.net> - 2012-08-25 13:39 -0500
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-08-06 14:07 +0000
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-06 09:48 -0500
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 17:23 +0100
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-08-06 18:36 +0000
Re: ARM boot technology going up a notch "Stonethrower" <digi_64-public[removeme]@yahoo.com> - 2012-08-06 15:15 +0200
csiph-web