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Re: It's over

From rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: It's over
Date 2024-07-12 20:44 +0000
Message-ID <lfditjFrusiU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <Z5_jO.22231$xYQc.10757@fx12.iad> <vs319jdc29vqmoamnsiifsqt4bm5868sq7@4ax.com> <8b8kO.6120$sE%9.3325@fx14.iad> <lfcrkfFopfgU1@mid.individual.net> <1afkO.4323$S0Ne.34@fx39.iad>

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On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 15:07:34 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> On 2024-07-12 10:07 a.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 07:10:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> 
>>> It will be necessary to replace hardware no matter what. As we've
>>> learned over the past few decades, doing the exact same thing that
>>> we've always done requires additional processing power every eighteen
>>> months or so.
>> 
>> Why is that? It's difficult to pick a specific time but I haven't seen
>> much improvement in the things I do in the past 10 or 15 years. I am
>> not a gamer.
> 
> As the processing power increases, the need to optimize your code
> decreases. Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and
> MacOS don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
> partners sell more hardware.

Optimization is overrated :)  By that I mean people will spend time trying 
to optimize sections of code that will not make a difference rather than 
getting the program running, defining the bottlenecks, and focusing on 
those areas.

Language choices can kill you too. At one time Java was svelte with 
acceptable performance. Then they introduced Swing and the 'you need a 
bigger machine' mantra. I enjoy Python and it is getting better but you're 
never going to build a Ferrari with it.

Networks are often overlooked. Our system consisted of a number of 
workstations and a central server with a MVC model. That means every 
workstation has to be informed of every change. Most slowness was a 
network problem. That improved as LANs became faster. However the problem 
doesn't go away as more applications are reaching out over the internet. 

The hardware requirement I've seen with the most change is memory. Very 
few people optimize for memory. When I interviewed 25 years ago the head 
of engineering posed a question starting with 'assume you have unlimited 
memory'. My background had been in embedded projects where memory was 
extremely limited but he saw the future. Runs like crap? Add another 32 
GB.

All that still begs the question of when is a box fast enough. My previous 
work windows machine was 4th gen from 2013, similar to the box i'm running 
Fedora 40 on. By 2020 my personal laptop was noticeably faster for some 
projects but overall the old machine with Windows 7 was usable. These were 
development machines, often compiling a large C code base. How many users 
are doing something like that? When does the performance become 
unacceptable and trigger a new purchase? When does an enterprise that is 
looking at hundreds of machines to replace reach that point?

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It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-09 01:12 -0400
  Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-09 05:50 +0000
    Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-09 02:11 -0400
  Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-09 07:12 +0000
    Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-09 08:11 -0400
      Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆIt's overπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ πŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆJenπŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆ Dershmender πŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸΆη¬›πŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆ <root@127.0.0.1>  - 2024-07-09 14:11 +0000
        Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆIt's overπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-09 10:22 -0400
      Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-10 00:46 +0000
        Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-10 01:56 +0000
          Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-10 04:14 +0000
            Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-11 15:25 -0400
              Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-11 21:39 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-11 18:55 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-11 23:48 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-12 00:55 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-12 01:01 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-12 02:38 +0000
              Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-11 22:30 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-11 18:57 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-11 23:49 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-12 00:48 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-12 01:03 +0000
                Re: It's over chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-07-15 15:22 -0500
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-15 16:40 -0400
                Re: It's over DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2024-07-15 16:56 -0400
                Re: It's over % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-07-15 14:54 -0700
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 01:04 +0000
                Re: It's over DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2024-07-12 11:22 -0400
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-12 12:58 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-12 23:01 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-13 12:01 -0400
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-13 18:04 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-13 23:22 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-14 04:20 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-14 18:15 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-15 01:46 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-15 01:46 +0000
                Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-14 15:30 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-14 19:36 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-15 01:47 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-15 04:59 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-15 05:43 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-15 17:41 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 01:03 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-13 23:22 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-14 07:34 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-15 01:49 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-15 12:54 -0400
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-16 00:16 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 01:01 +0000
                Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-16 14:40 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-16 19:56 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 23:46 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-17 02:50 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-15 21:44 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 02:44 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-15 23:14 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 05:41 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-16 09:55 -0400
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-16 19:47 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-16 06:40 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 07:25 +0000
                Re: It's over Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-07-16 07:14 -0400
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-16 19:38 +0000
                Re: It's over DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2024-07-16 17:22 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 23:45 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 23:44 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-17 02:46 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 01:00 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-15 21:47 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 05:40 +0000
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-16 09:52 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-16 23:42 +0000
          Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-10 13:20 +0000
            Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-10 18:45 +0000
              Re: It's over Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-07-10 15:52 -0400
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-11 03:33 +0000
                Re: It's over Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-07-11 11:58 -0400
                Re: It's over % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-07-11 09:02 -0700
                Re: It's over Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-07-12 15:40 -0400
                Re: It's over % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-07-12 14:21 -0700
                Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-13 15:00 +0000
                Re: It's over Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-07-14 08:01 -0400
                Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-14 15:30 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-11 18:02 +0000
                Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-13 15:00 +0000
              Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-10 22:27 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-11 03:26 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-11 03:33 +0000
                Re: It's over vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-07-11 03:48 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-11 06:48 +0000
                Re: It's over Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-07-11 12:07 -0400
  Re: It's over DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2024-07-09 13:02 -0400
    Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-09 13:44 -0400
    Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-10 00:47 +0000
      Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-10 02:01 +0000
    Re: It's over Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2024-07-10 04:58 +0000
      Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-10 06:57 +0000
        Re: It's over vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-07-10 11:29 +0000
          Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-10 18:15 +0000
            Re: It's over WittySausage <witty@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-10 17:32 -0400
              Re: It's over vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-07-10 21:38 +0000
                Re: It's over WittySausage <witty@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-10 19:32 -0400
              Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-11 03:54 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-11 05:56 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-11 06:56 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-11 07:17 +0000
      Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-10 07:14 +0000
      Re: It's over DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2024-07-10 13:14 -0400
        Re: It's over WittySausage <witty@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-10 13:25 -0400
          Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-10 22:28 +0000
  Re: It's over WittySausage <witty@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-10 10:43 -0400
    Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-10 12:46 -0400
      Re: It's over WittySausage <witty@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-10 12:51 -0400
      Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-10 22:29 +0000
        Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-11 15:37 -0400
          Re: It's over WittySausage <witty@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-11 19:42 -0400
            Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-12 00:58 +0000
            Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-11 22:07 -0400
              Re: It's over CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-12 07:10 -0400
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-12 14:07 +0000
                Re: It's over CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-12 15:07 -0400
                Re: It's over % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-07-12 12:19 -0700
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-12 23:07 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-13 00:30 +0000
                Re: It's over DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2024-07-12 15:29 -0400
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-12 20:52 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-12 20:44 +0000
                Re: It's over % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-07-12 14:22 -0700
                Re: It's over CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-12 17:49 -0400
                Re: It's over CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-12 17:51 -0400
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-12 23:50 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-12 23:02 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-13 00:23 +0000
          Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-12 01:05 +0000
            Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-13 14:30 +0000
              Re: It's over CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-13 17:19 -0400
                Re: It's over DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2024-07-13 17:56 -0400
                Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-14 17:46 -0400
                Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-14 15:50 +0000
                Re: It's over CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-14 16:02 -0400
                Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-15 16:00 +0000
              Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-13 23:24 +0000
                Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-14 15:30 +0000
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-15 01:50 +0000
                Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-15 16:00 +0000
        Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-13 14:30 +0000
          Re: It's over StΓ©phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-07-13 14:45 +0000
            Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-13 15:00 +0000
              Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-13 12:06 -0400
              Re: It's over StΓ©phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-07-14 11:16 +0000
              Re: It's over vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-07-15 05:35 +0000
            Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-13 17:21 +0000
            Re: It's over RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-07-14 01:24 +0000
              Re: It's over StΓ©phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-07-14 11:13 +0000
                Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-14 15:30 +0000
          Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-13 12:05 -0400
            Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-13 23:27 +0000
              Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-14 07:39 -0400
                Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-15 01:55 +0000
          Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-13 23:25 +0000
            Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-14 15:30 +0000
              Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-14 17:46 -0400
              Re: It's over Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-15 01:52 +0000
        Re: It's over chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-07-14 06:26 -0500
          Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-14 15:30 +0000
            Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-14 18:53 +0000
              Re: It's over CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-14 16:09 -0400
              Re: It's over candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-15 16:00 +0000
                Re: It's over rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-15 17:43 +0000
          Re: It's over Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-14 15:15 -0400

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