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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #406928

Re: spreadsheet ergonomics

From owl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: spreadsheet ergonomics
Date 2017-04-08 05:57 +0000
Organization O.W.L.
Message-ID <ahvu003.ak3@rooftop.invalid> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <phzu9v03.abyy3@rooftop.invalid> <D50D91CA.9DA84%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <0hjz030ga.by@rooftop.invalid> <D50DAB41.9DAA9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <D50DB332.9DAB4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>

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Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 4/7/17, 8:46 PM, in article D50DAB41.9DAA9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 4/7/17, 7:11 PM, in article 0hjz030ga.by@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
>> <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>> ... 
>> 
>>>>> Any set of tabular data can be considered a table.  When you create
>>>>> a table in Numbers, if you do not use the entire maximum column and
>>>>> row limits, do you say that it is not a table?
>>>> 
>>>> Do I say the table is not a table? Um, no. That would be silly. But I do not
>>>> claim that different parts of the same table are different tables, as you
>>>> do.
>> 
>> Do you see why your question here showed your ignorance of what a table is?
>> If a table has data only in a certain range that does not make the rest of
>> the table cease to be a table.
>> 
>>>>> Of course you don't.
>>>> 
>>>> Right: I call a table a table, not a range in a table a table.
>> 
>> Did you even understand this? Do you understand the difference between a
>> range in a table and a table?
>>  
>>>>> But how can it be a table if you're not maxing it out?
>>>> 
>>>> A shoe is a shoe even when your foot is not in it. A sole of a shoe does not
>>>> become a shoe, though, even if you reference it as one.
>>>> 
>>>>> That seems to be what you're saying.
>>>> 
>>>> Not even slightly. I mean, really, it is not even remotely connected to
>>>> anything I said. Hey, I said you said something about rows you did not
>>>> (though understandably I was confused by your lack of proper terminology)...
>>>> here you are claiming I am saying something I never did. OK. Good test to
>>>> see if you are as honest as I am.
>> 
>> Do you see why what you claimed it "seemed" like I was saying was not at all
>> what I was saying?
>> 
>>>>> So given that it *is* still a table without using the all the cells, how
>>>>> does that subset of the maximum cells anchored at A0 differ from any other
>>>>> subset?
>>>>> 
>>>> Assuming you mean: Given it is a table how does one range differ from
>>>> another? If so it is because they are different ranges... in the case of
>>>> what
>>>> you are referring to they are not even overlapping ranges.
>>>> 
>>>> If that is NOT what you mean then I would need you to explain what you are
>>>> even trying to say.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> You seem to have a density problem.
>>> 
>>> <quote>
>>> From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:
>>> 
>>>   table
>>>       n 1: a set of data arranged in rows and columns; "see table 1"
>>>            [syn: {table}, {tabular array}]
>>> 
>>> </quote>
>> 
>> Here, maybe this will help you:
>> 
>> <http://n-t-roff.github.io/sc.1.pdf>
>>     -----
>>     Next, it reads the options from the command line, and finally, it
>>     reads in the file or files specified on the command line and
>>     presents the data in a table organized as rows and columns of cells.
>>     -----
>> A table. Not a set of ranges we call tables.
>> 
>>     -----
>>     If invoked without a file argument, the table is initially empty,
>>     unless it is running in a pipeline, in which case it will read its
>>     data from the standard input.
>>     ------
>> A table. Not a set of ranges we call tables.
>> 
>>     -----
>>     The rest of the screen forms a window looking at a portion of the
>>     table. The total number of display rows and columns available, hence
>>     the number of table rows and columns displayed, is set by curses(3)
>>     and may be overridden by setting the LINES and COLUMNS environment
>>     variables, respectively.
>>     -----
>> A table. Not a set of ranges we call tables.
>> 
>>     -----
>>     If a number is given, sc will search for a cell containing that
>>     number. Searches for either strings or numbers proceed forward from
>>     the current cell, wrapping back to a0 at the end of the table, and
>>     terminate at the current cell if the string or number is not found.
>>     -----
>> Yeah, it wraps back to the start of the table. The full table. Not the range
>> (though you might have an option to limit it to a range, a range is not
>> generally the full table -- though it can be).
>> 
>> But maybe that is not clear enough for you. So let us look at what a range
>> is:
>>     -----
>>     Built-in Range Functions
>> 
>>     These functions return numeric values. The @sum, @prod, @avg,
>>     @count, @max, @min, and @stddev functions may take an optional
>>     second argument which is an expression that is to be evaluated for
>>     each cell in the specified range to determine which cells to include
>>     in the function. Only those cells for which the expression evaluates
>>     to true (non-zero) will be used in calculating the value of the
>>     function.
>>     -----
>> Hey, the SUM function you are using does not use the whole table but a range
>> (and it likely cannot get a sum of itself so that range cannot be the whole
>> table).
>> 
>>     -----
>>     Range Commands
>> 
>>     Range operations affect a rectangular region on the screen defined
>>     by the upper left and lower right cells in the region.
>>     -----
>> Yeah... those ranges you call tables in your ONE table... they are ranges in
>> your ONE table.
>> 
> OK, did more research and found a bit of a middle ground in the use of the
> word table. Excel actually lets you set a range into a "table" within a
> sheet. I wish they had used a different term, say a sub-table or, as you
> called it, a "pseudo-table"... and in the past they used to call this a
> "list", which also works, I suppose (though it is not very clear).
> 
> But they did not keep the name list, they went with table -- though for
> their current naming this makes some sense: the whole page (the sheet) is
> not deemed a table. In sc, of course, it is.
> 
> Still, this "pseudo-table" or "list" or, now, Excel table has a lot of
> things that make it work as a unit in the way a range (which is how you are
> using the term "table") does not.
> 


Note the use of "table" in the below excerpts from sc's manpage.  @nval()
and @sval() use absolute row number and column name indexing, and warn you
to "be sure the table doesn't move unexpectedly."  You use the @index()
function like this: @index(blah,1,3) to refer to row 1, column 3 of named
range blah, wherever that table appears in the file.  In other words, the
row and column numbers are relative to "blah" itself and have nothing
to do with whatever row and column it is in the file (the outer table).
You can sort the rows of these tables independently of their absolute
row numbers, etc.  In other words, the sorting does not affect any data
outside the table.  You can also sort portions of the table and not
affect other areas within the table.


<quote>

       g      Go  to  a cell.  sc prompts for a cell's name, a regular expres‐
              sion surrounded by quotes, or a number.  If a cell's  name  such
              as  ae122 or the name of a defined range is given, the cell cur‐
              sor goes directly to that cell.  If a quoted regular  expression
              such  as " Tax Table " or " ^Jan [0-9]*$ " is given, sc searches
              for a cell containing a string matching the regular  expression.
              See  regex(3)  or  ed(1) for more details on the form of regular
              expressions.

....

       @index(e1,r)
       @index(r,e1)
       @index(r,e1,e2)   Use  the values of expressions e1 and (optionally) e2
                         to index into the range r.  The numeric value at that
                         position  is returned.  With two arguments, the range
                         should be either a single row or a single column.  An
                         expression with the value 1 selects the first item in
                         the range, 2 selects  the  second  item,  etc.   With
                         three  arguments,  the range must come first, and the
                         second and third arguments will then  be  interpreted
                         as  row and column, respectively, for indexing into a
                         two-dimensional table.

       @stindex(e1,r)
       @stindex(r,e1)
       @stindex(r,e1,e2) Use the values of expressions e1 and (optionally)  e2
                         to  index into the range r.  The string value at that
                         position is returned.  With two arguments, the  range
                         should be either a single row or a single column.  An
                         expression with the value 1 selects the first item in
                         the  range,  2  selects  the  second item, etc.  With
                         three arguments, the range must come first,  and  the
                         second  and  third arguments will then be interpreted
                         as row and column, respectively, for indexing into  a
                         two-dimensional table.

....

       @nval(se,e)       Return  the numeric value of a cell selected by name.
                         String expression se must evaluate to a  column  name
                         (``A''-``AE'')  and  e  must evaluate to a row number
                         (0-199).  If se or e is out of bounds,  or  the  cell
                         has  no  numeric value, the result is 0.  You can use
                         this for simple table lookups.   Be  sure  the  table
                         doesn't move unexpectedly!  See also @sval() below.

...

       @sval(se,e)       Return  the  string value of a cell selected by name.
                         String expression se must evaluate to a  column  name
                         (``A''-``AE'')  and  e  must evaluate to a row number
                         (0-199).  If se or e is out of bounds,  or  the  cell
                         has  no  string value, the result is the null string.
                         You can use this for simple table lookups.   Be  sure
                         the table doesn't move unexpectedly!

</quote>

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Thread

Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-07 09:03 -0700
  Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-07 09:43 -0700
  Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-08 00:24 +0000
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-07 18:15 -0700
      Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-08 01:41 +0000
        Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-07 18:58 -0700
          Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-08 02:11 +0000
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-07 20:46 -0700
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-07 21:20 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-08 05:57 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-07 23:12 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-08 06:23 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-07 23:44 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2017-04-08 07:33 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-08 00:47 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 10:28 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-09 14:00 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 11:09 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-09 11:25 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2017-04-09 22:01 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-09 15:40 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 15:48 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-09 22:30 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-09 15:42 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 08:45 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-10 16:46 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 09:58 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-10 19:07 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-10 12:25 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 12:36 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Mark Garcia <markymark1901z@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-10 19:44 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-10 13:00 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 12:25 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-10 19:35 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 12:37 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-10 19:47 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-10 12:57 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 13:04 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-10 20:17 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 13:27 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-10 20:43 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 13:55 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-10 22:36 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-10 16:10 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 14:18 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-10 17:01 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-10 12:48 -0700

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