Groups > comp.mobile.android > #141174 > unrolled thread

Why are iPhone videos clear when sent to iPhones but blurry when sent to Android?

Started by	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
First post	2024-05-16 22:12 +0000
Last post	2024-05-18 17:03 +0000
Articles	14 on this page of 94 — 10 participants

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#141193

From	Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net>
Date	2024-05-17 16:54 +0200
Message-ID	<v27r41$27tb6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#141191

On 17.05.24 15:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-05-17 00:12, Andrew wrote:
>> Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone
>> users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
>> their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
>>    <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
>>
>> Why?
> 
> Probably because you are using MMS and not RCS, so there is a size
> limitation, or IOS is doing a conversion at their side (imessages to mms)
> 
> Convince your family to switch to WhatsApp, or Telegram, or Signal, or
> Threema...
> 
> If they refuse, then tell them to resend those videos over mail. O use
> some sharing site on the cloud.
> 
> Or convince them to switch to Android :-D

So sweet! :-D


-- 
"Mille viae ducunt hominem per saecula Romam." (Alanus ab Insulis 1120-1202)

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#141192

From	Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date	2024-05-17 14:15 +0000
Message-ID	<v27vmb.72c.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to	#141174

[Disclaimer: In the off chance that this isn't a troll:]

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone
> users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
> their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
>  <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
> 
> Why?

  I'm sure the iPhone users don't send the video "through their text
mechanism", but through their *messaging* app, probably called
'Messages', and using the iMessage messaging platform.

  Your screenshot mentions MMS, so on the Android side the video is
received as a MMS message, hence the appalling 'quality'.

  You get a MMS message, because Apple hasn't implemented iMessage on
Android, so seeing a non-iMessage recipient, Apple's Messages/iMessage
has no other choice then to convert the video to a crappy MMS message.

  That on both platforms - iOS and Android - the app is called
'Messages', doesn't mean they are comparable. On iOS the 'Messages' app
- by default - uses the advanced iMessage IM (Instant Messaging)
platform. On Android, the 'Messages' app uses the stone-age SMS/MMS
mechanism (or possibly RCS for Android to Android).

  Bottom line: Join the real world and use some cross-platform IM method
like WhatsApp.

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#141194

From	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Date	2024-05-17 15:05 +0000
Message-ID	<v27rmu$o3m$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#141192

Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 14:15:01 GMT :

> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>> Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone
>> users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
>> their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
>>  <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
>> 
>> Why?
> 
>   I'm sure the iPhone users don't send the video "through their text
> mechanism", but through their *messaging* app, probably called
> 'Messages', and using the iMessage messaging platform.
> 
>   Your screenshot mentions MMS, so on the Android side the video is
> received as a MMS message, hence the appalling 'quality'.
> 
>   You get a MMS message, because Apple hasn't implemented iMessage on
> Android, so seeing a non-iMessage recipient, Apple's Messages/iMessage
> has no other choice then to convert the video to a crappy MMS message.

Thanks to Tyrone, Carlos & Frank (and even to Jolly Roger) for explaining
why the new baby videos from this particular grandchild are so blurry.

I bought my grandaughter her iPhone as I give phones as gifts (and I even
have an old iPhone that I'm going to gift to my great grandchild when he's
old enough to use a phone since the family is all Apple, 100%).

As you noted, they're using their default messaging app just as I'm using
my default messaging app, and I appreciate that you used the proper wording
since the app is called "Messages" but the system is referred to as
"iMessage" and that you explained to my satisfaction what probably is
happening (which I would agree with). 

I wasn't aware "where" the conversion of the video to "crappy" happened
though, because the Apple recipients don't see the short video as crappy. 

Just the Android recipients.

So thanks for letting me know the conversion probably happens at the Apple
iMessaging server for the senders' Messages app login into Apple servers.

Much appreciated.

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#141200

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2024-05-17 16:39 +0000
Message-ID	<lapfh4Fod2lU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141194

On 2024-05-17, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 14:15:01 GMT :
>
>> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>>> Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone
>>> users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
>>> their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
>>>  <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
>>> 
>>> Why?
>> 
>>   I'm sure the iPhone users don't send the video "through their text
>> mechanism", but through their *messaging* app, probably called
>> 'Messages', and using the iMessage messaging platform.
>> 
>>   Your screenshot mentions MMS, so on the Android side the video is
>> received as a MMS message, hence the appalling 'quality'.
>> 
>>   You get a MMS message, because Apple hasn't implemented iMessage on
>> Android, so seeing a non-iMessage recipient, Apple's Messages/iMessage
>> has no other choice then to convert the video to a crappy MMS message.
>
> Thanks to Tyrone, Carlos & Frank (and even to Jolly Roger) for explaining
> why the new baby videos from this particular grandchild are so blurry.
>
> I bought my grandaughter her iPhone as I give phones as gifts (and I even
> have an old iPhone that I'm going to gift to my great grandchild when he's
> old enough to use a phone since the family is all Apple, 100%).
>
> As you noted, they're using their default messaging app just as I'm using
> my default messaging app, and I appreciate that you used the proper wording
> since the app is called "Messages" but the system is referred to as
> "iMessage" and that you explained to my satisfaction what probably is
> happening (which I would agree with). 
>
> I wasn't aware "where" the conversion of the video to "crappy" happened
> though, because the Apple recipients don't see the short video as crappy. 
>
> Just the Android recipients.
>
> So thanks for letting me know the conversion probably happens at the Apple
> iMessaging server for the senders' Messages app login into Apple servers.
>
> Much appreciated.

You're both wrong. There is no "conversion", and MMS messages aren't
sent through the iMessage service. It's amazing this has to be explained
like you're a five year old, but so be it: The iPhone is a cellular device as
well as an internet device. As such, it has the capability to check with
Apple's iMessage service to see if a recipient is a user that is logged
into the iMessage service. If so, the message is sent through iMessage.
If not, the message is sent through the cellular service as an SMS/MMS.
Cellular providers require MMS messages to be reduced in quality as a
way to reduce cellular data use, which is why videos are degraded when
sent over the cellular service. That's it - no "conversion" takes place,
and the iMessage service is not involved in cellular messaging. 


-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#141208

From	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Date	2024-05-17 18:29 +0000
Message-ID	<v287mf$11ec$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#141200

Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 16:39:01 GMT :

> You're both wrong. There is no "conversion", and MMS messages aren't
> sent through the iMessage service. It's amazing this has to be explained
> like you're a five year old, but so be it: The iPhone is a cellular device as
> well as an internet device. As such, it has the capability to check with
> Apple's iMessage service to see if a recipient is a user that is logged
> into the iMessage service. If so, the message is sent through iMessage.
> If not, the message is sent through the cellular service as an SMS/MMS.
> Cellular providers require MMS messages to be reduced in quality as a
> way to reduce cellular data use, which is why videos are degraded when
> sent over the cellular service. That's it - no "conversion" takes place,
> and the iMessage service is not involved in cellular messaging.

Thanks for that detailed explanation, which outlines some (but not all) of
the ten or so discrete steps in the process of an iPhone sending a short
video to both iOS and Android users (all using the default messaging app).

There is a downsampling so that's the conversion we are speaking of.
That downsampling is happening somewhere - where you don't say where.
Where is the downsampling occurring?

The process, based on what you said, appears to be this, is that correct?

1. iPhone sender is logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframe servers
   iPhone recipient is also logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframes
   Android recipient is not logged into Apple or Google mainframes
   All have an active data connection to carrier towers & servers
   Apparently on the Apple messaging mainframe server is kept a detailed 
   tracking of iOS-owners' AppleID associated with their phone number.
2. iPhone sender tries to send a short video to iPhone & Android recipients
3. That attempt to send apparently goes over the Internet first to Apple 
   mainframe servers which send back the decision of which of the
   recipients AppleID's are logged into Apple messaging servers 
   (and which are not).

   (I don't yet know what happens if there is no Internet connection 
   established by the sender's iPhone to Apple messaging servers though.)

4. Apple messaging servers accept only the videos whose AppleID's match
   Apple's determination of who is logged into their messaging servers.
   For those AppleIDs, Apple send the video over the Internet to the 
   recipients who are logged into the Apple messaging mainframe servers.'

   (I'm not sure what happens if the recipient is on an iPhone and yet
   they don't have cellular data Internet or Wi-Fi Internet at the moment.
   What if the iPhone recipient only has a carrier non-data connection?
  
   How is it sent when the message could be sent either way, right? 
   How is that message sent to iPhone owners?
   a. Cellular-data Internet connection?
   b. Wi-Fi Internet connection?
   c. (It's probably not sent over the carrier's non-data connection.)

5. Apparently Apple messaging servers do not accept for transit on 
   their messaging mainframe servers any messages from the sender's 
   iPhone intended for people not recognized by the Apple messaging
   mainframe server. Those are rejected apparently.

6. For any message rejected by the Apple mainframe messaging servers, 
   the senders iPhone is informed, again over the Internet of that fact.

7. Only at this point, apparently, does the sending iPhone resort to 
   sending the messages to the carrier (although this brings up the 
   question of whether only cellular data will work or if a local
   Wi-Fi connection to the Internet to the carrier will also work).

8. Now is the problem of which machine does the downsizing of the 
   video, turning it into crap. Presumably the carrier does that.
   Is that correct?

9. Once the carrier (presumably) downsizes the video, then it's sent
   over the carrier's celltowers, one of which communicates with
   the Android recipient's phone over the phone number identification.

Thank you for helping to hone how the process works.
I'm sure I got some things wrong above, and even if I got them right, there
are still questions in the analysis above, so where do we need corrections?

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#141232

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2024-05-17 23:33 +0000
Message-ID	<laq7pvFrutkU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141208

On 2024-05-17, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 16:39:01 GMT :
>
>> You're both wrong. There is no "conversion", and MMS messages aren't
>> sent through the iMessage service. It's amazing this has to be explained
>> like you're a five year old, but so be it: The iPhone is a cellular device as
>> well as an internet device. As such, it has the capability to check with
>> Apple's iMessage service to see if a recipient is a user that is logged
>> into the iMessage service. If so, the message is sent through iMessage.
>> If not, the message is sent through the cellular service as an SMS/MMS.
>> Cellular providers require MMS messages to be reduced in quality as a
>> way to reduce cellular data use, which is why videos are degraded when
>> sent over the cellular service. That's it - no "conversion" takes place,
>> and the iMessage service is not involved in cellular messaging.
>
> Thanks for that detailed explanation, which outlines some (but not all) of
> the ten or so discrete steps in the process of an iPhone sending a short
> video to both iOS and Android users (all using the default messaging app).
>
> There is a downsampling so that's the conversion we are speaking of.
> That downsampling is happening somewhere - where you don't say where.
> Where is the downsampling occurring?

I already told you it happens on the receiving cellular provider's side,
as each provider sets their own file size limits.

> The process, based on what you said, appears to be this, is that correct?
>
> 1. iPhone sender is logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframe servers

Oh, tHe HoRrOr - tHeY aRe LoGgEd InTo MaInFrAmE sErVeRs, yOu SaY??
aCk!!1! No other messagaing app or service requires you to be logged
into it, RIGHT, Arlen? 🤣

>    iPhone recipient is also logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframes

Oh, noz!

>    Android recipient is not logged into Apple or Google mainframes

Lots of Android users log into Google servers, Arlen. And that's
irrelevant as to this discussion, you tool.

>    All have an active data connection to carrier towers & servers
>    Apparently on the Apple messaging mainframe server is kept a detailed 
>    tracking of iOS-owners' AppleID associated with their phone number.

Yes, and the Android cellular MMS message server keeps track of the
phone number and account details (including the name and other details)
of the user.

> 2. iPhone sender tries to send a short video to iPhone & Android recipients
> 3. That attempt to send apparently goes over the Internet first to Apple 
>    mainframe servers which send back the decision of which of the
>    recipients AppleID's are logged into Apple messaging servers 
>    (and which are not).
>
>    (I don't yet know what happens if there is no Internet connection 
>    established by the sender's iPhone to Apple messaging servers though.)

Common sense should tell you that iMessage is an internet technology,
Arlen. When you aren't signed into iMessage, you naturally can't send
messages through the service. So messages are sent as SMS/MMS messages
through your cellular provider instead. 

> 4. Apple messaging servers accept only the videos whose AppleID's match
>    Apple's determination of who is logged into their messaging servers.
>    For those AppleIDs, Apple send the video over the Internet to the 
>    recipients who are logged into the Apple messaging mainframe servers.'
>
>    (I'm not sure what happens if the recipient is on an iPhone and yet
>    they don't have cellular data Internet or Wi-Fi Internet at the moment.
>    What if the iPhone recipient only has a carrier non-data connection?

No data connection and no internet means no messaging. Duh. Same for
Android smartphones.

>    How is it sent when the message could be sent either way, right? 

That "question" makes no sense as written.

>    How is that message sent to iPhone owners?
>    a. Cellular-data Internet connection?
>    b. Wi-Fi Internet connection?
>    c. (It's probably not sent over the carrier's non-data connection.)

You can't send messages without a cellular connection or internet
connection, Arlen. How in the holy fuck are you this clueless? You
regularly claim you know more about iPhones and technology than anyone
else here. 🤣

> 5. Apparently Apple messaging servers do not accept for transit on 
>    their messaging mainframe servers any messages from the sender's 
>    iPhone intended for people not recognized by the Apple messaging
>    mainframe server. Those are rejected apparently.

Nope, wrong again. The iPhone doesn't even use the iMessage service for
Android recipients. 

> 6. For any message rejected by the Apple mainframe messaging servers, 
>    the senders iPhone is informed, again over the Internet of that fact.

Nope. See above.

> 7. Only at this point, apparently, does the sending iPhone resort to 
>    sending the messages to the carrier (although this brings up the 
>    question of whether only cellular data will work or if a local
>    Wi-Fi connection to the Internet to the carrier will also work).

Wrong again. The iPhone checks to see if the recipient is an iMessage
user, and if not sends the message through the cellular network instead.

> 8. Now is the problem of which machine does the downsizing of the 
>    video, turning it into crap. Presumably the carrier does that.
>    Is that correct?

Yep. And each carrier has their own file size limits and compression
mechanism. 

> 9. Once the carrier (presumably) downsizes the video, then it's sent
>    over the carrier's celltowers, one of which communicates with
>    the Android recipient's phone over the phone number identification.

Yup.

> Thank you for helping to hone how the process works.

You could have looked this up on the web in seconds, Arlen. 🤣

> I'm sure I got some things wrong above, and even if I got them right, there
> are still questions in the analysis above, so where do we need corrections?

"We" don't need any of this - your little exercise is rather pointless,
since all of this is common knowledge to anyone who knows anything about
technology, Arlen.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#141242

From	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Date	2024-05-18 00:43 +0000
Message-ID	<v28tk5$1e7j$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#141232

Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 23:33:19 GMT :

>> There is a downsampling so that's the conversion we are speaking of.
>> That downsampling is happening somewhere - where you don't say where.
>> Where is the downsampling occurring?
> 
> I already told you it happens on the receiving cellular provider's side,
> as each provider sets their own file size limits.

And you are most likely wrong, Jolly Roger, which Frank Slootweg explained.
But you tried so I'll leave it at that.

>> The process, based on what you said, appears to be this, is that correct?
>>
>> 1. iPhone sender is logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframe servers
> 
> Oh, tHe HoRrOr - tHeY aRe LoGgEd InTo MaInFrAmE sErVeRs, yOu SaY??

Apple is like Ashley Madison, claiming privacy while it's always a lie.
You're logged into Apple tracking servers every moment of your life.

Apple's promise of privacy is as false as Ashley Madison's promise was.

> No other messagaing app or service requires you to be logged
> into it, RIGHT

There is no other common consumer platform which requires you to be logged 
into it for the basic functionality of the phone - except for iOS, JR.

That you don't understand that fact is indicative of your religious mantra.

>>    iPhone recipient is also logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframes
> 
> Oh, noz!

That you are unaware that Android sends & receives messages through the 
default messenger app without logging into Google servers is clear.

Only Apple requires you log into their mainframe servers for the messaging 
functionality that Apple advertises and that you religious zealots love.

>>    Android recipient is not logged into Apple or Google mainframes
> 
> Lots of Android users log into Google servers. 
> And that's irrelevant as to this discussion, you tool.

It's no longer shocking you don't understand that no other operating system 
but iOS requires the user to be logged in 24/7/365 for basic functionality.

Google does not require that login into Google's mainframe servers.
Apple does.

Note: You can say "don't log in" but I've done that. Apple will 
unilaterally brick your iOS device if you stop logging into the servers
for a period of time (two years in my case on two different iPads).

There's a reason Apple designed the iOS device to be a dumb terminal, JR.
It can't do anything that you love about iOS without Apple server logins.

>>    All have an active data connection to carrier towers & servers
>>    Apparently on the Apple messaging mainframe server is kept a detailed 
>>    tracking of iOS-owners' AppleID associated with their phone number.
> 
> Yes, and the Android cellular MMS message server keeps track of the
> phone number and account details (including the name and other details)
> of the user.

So does the iOS cellular MMS service, Jolly Roger. Nobody said otherwise.
It's a necessary evil to obtain cellular phone service with MMS capability.

>> 2. iPhone sender tries to send a short video to iPhone & Android recipients
>> 3. That attempt to send apparently goes over the Internet first to Apple 
>>    mainframe servers which send back the decision of which of the
>>    recipients AppleID's are logged into Apple messaging servers 
>>    (and which are not).
>>
>>    (I don't yet know what happens if there is no Internet connection 
>>    established by the sender's iPhone to Apple messaging servers though.)
> 
> Common sense should tell you that iMessage is an internet technology,

Ah, but Android's default messaging is not - although RCS may change that.

> When you aren't signed into iMessage, you naturally can't send
> messages through the service. So messages are sent as SMS/MMS messages
> through your cellular provider instead. 

Exactly.
Without logging into Apple's mainframe servers, all the things you love 
about your iPhone instantly cease to exist,. It's just a dumb terminal.

>> 4. Apple messaging servers accept only the videos whose AppleID's match
>>    Apple's determination of who is logged into their messaging servers.
>>    For those AppleIDs, Apple send the video over the Internet to the 
>>    recipients who are logged into the Apple messaging mainframe servers.'
>>
>>    (I'm not sure what happens if the recipient is on an iPhone and yet
>>    they don't have cellular data Internet or Wi-Fi Internet at the moment.
>>    What if the iPhone recipient only has a carrier non-data connection?
> 
> No data connection and no internet means no messaging. Duh. 
> Same for Android smartphones.

I didn't say that. I said either or. 

>>    How is it sent when the message could be sent either way, right? 
> 
> That "question" makes no sense as written.

Either by WI-Fi Internet or by cellular data Internet.

>>    How is that message sent to iPhone owners?
>>    a. Cellular-data Internet connection?
>>    b. Wi-Fi Internet connection?
>>    c. (It's probably not sent over the carrier's non-data connection.)
> 
> You can't send messages without a cellular connection or internet
> connection.

Again, there's the concept of either or that you need to study.

> How in the holy fuck are you this clueless?
> You regularly claim you know more about iPhones and technology than anyone
> else here. 

I know how iOS updates and I know how Android updates. You don't.
I just don't deal with iOS messaging since the iPads are just toys to me.

>> 5. Apparently Apple messaging servers do not accept for transit on 
>>    their messaging mainframe servers any messages from the sender's 
>>    iPhone intended for people not recognized by the Apple messaging
>>    mainframe server. Those are rejected apparently.
> 
> Nope, wrong again. The iPhone doesn't even use the iMessage service for
> Android recipients. 

There must be a method on the phone that tells the iPhone which people are 
logged into the Apple mainframes and which people are not logged into them.

>> 6. For any message rejected by the Apple mainframe messaging servers, 
>>    the senders iPhone is informed, again over the Internet of that fact.
> 
> Nope. See above.

I'm not sure if you're right. See above.

>> 7. Only at this point, apparently, does the sending iPhone resort to 
>>    sending the messages to the carrier (although this brings up the 
>>    question of whether only cellular data will work or if a local
>>    Wi-Fi connection to the Internet to the carrier will also work).
> 
> Wrong again. The iPhone checks to see if the recipient is an iMessage
> user, and if not sends the message through the cellular network instead.

How does the iPhone know if the iMessage user is logged into the Apple 
mainframe servers? I'm not logged into my Messages app on my iPad.
 
>> 8. Now is the problem of which machine does the downsizing of the 
>>    video, turning it into crap. Presumably the carrier does that.
>>    Is that correct?
> 
> Yep. And each carrier has their own file size limits and compression
> mechanism. 

I'm not sure if that's the case, as Frank made an eloquent argument that 
the compression to shit of the videos is happening on the iPhone itself.

>> 9. Once the carrier (presumably) downsizes the video, then it's sent
>>    over the carrier's celltowers, one of which communicates with
>>    the Android recipient's phone over the phone number identification.
> 
> Yup.

We're not sure yet where the downsizing to shit happens. Frank's argument 
is valid that the carriers don't want to do it as that would negate the 
whole point of limiting the amount of data sent to the carriers.

>> Thank you for helping to hone how the process works.
> 
> You could have looked this up on the web in seconds.

I doubt it. Show me a full explanation on the net where it is explained.

>> I'm sure I got some things wrong above, and even if I got them right, there
>> are still questions in the analysis above, so where do we need corrections?
> 
> "We" don't need any of this - your little exercise is rather pointless,
> since all of this is common knowledge to anyone who knows anything about
> technology, Arlen.

Actually, none of us (including you) knows how it works, as all of us 
(except you iKooks) have openly said we're not sure how it works.

You iKooks are always sure but you're always wrong at the same time.
You don't actually know how it works any more than I don't know it.

If you can find an article that explains fully how it works, I'll not only
read it, but I'll be able to understand it - but I doubt it actually exists
since everyone glosses over the critical steps of where things happen.

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#141249

From	Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Date	2024-05-17 18:12 -0700
Message-ID	<v28v91$2erec$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#141242

On 2024-05-17 17:43, Andrew wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 23:33:19 GMT :
> 
>>> There is a downsampling so that's the conversion we are speaking of.
>>> That downsampling is happening somewhere - where you don't say where.
>>> Where is the downsampling occurring?
>>
>> I already told you it happens on the receiving cellular provider's side,
>> as each provider sets their own file size limits.
> 
> And you are most likely wrong, Jolly Roger, which Frank Slootweg explained.
> But you tried so I'll leave it at that.

'What is the MMS file size limit on Android?

First of all, your carrier is the one that limits the MMS file size, not 
your phone. For example, Verizon only allows images up to 1.2 MB and 
videos up to 3.5 MB, while T-Mobile has a 1 MB limit for sending (3 MB 
for receiving).

A recipient’s carrier can also limit the size. For example, if the 
intended recipient’s carrier doesn’t support your large file size, it 
will reject or compress the file. This will happen even if your carrier 
supports the large file size.'

<https://www.twilio.com/en-us/blog/how-to-increase-mms-size-limit-android>

> 
>>> The process, based on what you said, appears to be this, is that correct?
>>>
>>> 1. iPhone sender is logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframe servers
>>
>> Oh, tHe HoRrOr - tHeY aRe LoGgEd InTo MaInFrAmE sErVeRs, yOu SaY??
> 
> Apple is like Ashley Madison, claiming privacy while it's always a lie.
> You're logged into Apple tracking servers every moment of your life.

EVERY message service logs you in, Arlen.

> 
> Apple's promise of privacy is as false as Ashley Madison's promise was.
> 
>> No other messagaing app or service requires you to be logged
>> into it, RIGHT
> 
> There is no other common consumer platform which requires you to be logged
> into it for the basic functionality of the phone - except for iOS, JR.

We're discussing message apps and services.

> 
> That you don't understand that fact is indicative of your religious mantra.
> 
>>>     iPhone recipient is also logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframes
>>
>> Oh, noz!
> 
> That you are unaware that Android sends & receives messages through the
> default messenger app without logging into Google servers is clear.

But every service requires you to be authorized to use it.

> 
> Only Apple requires you log into their mainframe servers for the messaging
> functionality that Apple advertises and that you religious zealots love.

Apple doesn't require that:

<https://support.apple.com/en-ca/108758>

> 
>>>     Android recipient is not logged into Apple or Google mainframes
>>
>> Lots of Android users log into Google servers.
>> And that's irrelevant as to this discussion, you tool.
> 
> It's no longer shocking you don't understand that no other operating system
> but iOS requires the user to be logged in 24/7/365 for basic functionality.
> 
> Google does not require that login into Google's mainframe servers.
> Apple does.

But messaging services require you to be "logged in", Arlen.

> 
> Note: You can say "don't log in" but I've done that. Apple will
> unilaterally brick your iOS device if you stop logging into the servers
> for a period of time (two years in my case on two different iPads).

That is utterly false.

> 
> There's a reason Apple designed the iOS device to be a dumb terminal, JR.
> It can't do anything that you love about iOS without Apple server logins.

Also false.

> 
>>>     All have an active data connection to carrier towers & servers
>>>     Apparently on the Apple messaging mainframe server is kept a detailed
>>>     tracking of iOS-owners' AppleID associated with their phone number.
>>
>> Yes, and the Android cellular MMS message server keeps track of the
>> phone number and account details (including the name and other details)
>> of the user.
> 
> So does the iOS cellular MMS service, Jolly Roger. Nobody said otherwise.
> It's a necessary evil to obtain cellular phone service with MMS capability.

Correct.

So not being logged in to Google's servers was a straw man, right?

> 
>>> 2. iPhone sender tries to send a short video to iPhone & Android recipients
>>> 3. That attempt to send apparently goes over the Internet first to Apple
>>>     mainframe servers which send back the decision of which of the
>>>     recipients AppleID's are logged into Apple messaging servers
>>>     (and which are not).
>>>
>>>     (I don't yet know what happens if there is no Internet connection
>>>     established by the sender's iPhone to Apple messaging servers though.)
>>
>> Common sense should tell you that iMessage is an internet technology,
> 
> Ah, but Android's default messaging is not - although RCS may change that.

But it still requires the login of your SIM card.

> 
>> When you aren't signed into iMessage, you naturally can't send
>> messages through the service. So messages are sent as SMS/MMS messages
>> through your cellular provider instead.
> 
> Exactly.
> Without logging into Apple's mainframe servers, all the things you love
> about your iPhone instantly cease to exist,. It's just a dumb terminal.

Utterly false.

<rest of your boring, repetitive yapping snipped>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#141256

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2024-05-18 03:13 +0000
Message-ID	<laqknhFtmjkU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141242

On 2024-05-18, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 23:33:19 GMT :
>
>>> There is a downsampling so that's the conversion we are speaking of.
>>> That downsampling is happening somewhere - where you don't say
>>> where.  Where is the downsampling occurring?
>> 
>> I already told you it happens on the receiving cellular provider's
>> side, as each provider sets their own file size limits.
>
> And you are most likely wrong, Jolly Roger, which Frank Slootweg
> explained.  But you tried so I'll leave it at that.

My god, Arlen, you just wallow in your ignorance and *beg* to be
schooled, so here you go - straight from Android Police, no less:

---
Multimedia Messaging Service, or MMS for short, is the culprit behind
blurry text message photos. Many phones default to using this
media-sharing standard despite the existence of better alternatives. It
was created in the early 2000s, a time when the photo quality of most
phones was only a few megapixels. So perhaps it isn't surprising that
smartphones have outgrown the technology.

MMS has a strict file size limit.

The main problem with MMS is that *most carriers limit the size* of files
that can be sent. For example, Verizon only allows images up to 1.2MB to
be sent over text messages and videos up to 3.5MB. AT&T is even
stricter, only allowing videos up to 1MB. If an image or video is too
large, *it is compressed automatically*.
---

<https://www.androidpolice.com/why-text-message-videos-look-blurry-how-to-fix/>

Again, the reason it is the carrier who compresses MMS videos is because
each carrier has their own defined size limit.

>>> The process, based on what you said, appears to be this, is that correct?
>>>
>>> 1. iPhone sender is logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframe servers
>> 
>> Oh, tHe HoRrOr - tHeY aRe LoGgEd InTo MaInFrAmE sErVeRs, yOu SaY??
>
> Apple is like Ashley Madison, claiming privacy while it's always a lie.

You're a fucking idiot. iMessage has full end-to-end encryption. And
like the man-child you are, you're trying to change the topic because
you have noting more to offer in this conversation. 

>> No other messagaing app or service requires you to be logged
>> into it, RIGHT
>
> There is no other common consumer platform which requires you to be logged 
> into it for the basic functionality of the phone - except for iOS, JR.

No Apple login is required to use the basic functionality of an iPhone,
you complete idiot troll. You can make phone calls, send messages, and
do lots of other things without ever logging into an Apple server. You
like because you have nothing else. And it's fucking sad.

> That you don't understand that fact is indicative of your religious mantra.
>
>>>    iPhone recipient is also logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframes
>> 
>> Oh, noz!
>
> That you are unaware that Android sends & receives messages through the 
> default messenger app without logging into Google servers is clear.

So does iOS, dip shit. As you have been told *countless* times, iMessage
is *optional* and *opt-in*. And you can send messages through your
cellular carrier without iMessage.

> Only Apple requires you log into their mainframe servers for the messaging 

Bullshit.

> you religious zealots

Projection. You're the one trolling non-stop day in and day out in the
Apple news groups. You are the biggest zealot to ever step foot in these
news groups. And your trolls are *pathetic*. Just sad.

>>>    Android recipient is not logged into Apple or Google mainframes
>> 
>> Lots of Android users log into Google servers.  And that's irrelevant
>> as to this discussion, you tool.
>
> It's no longer shocking you don't understand that no other operating system 
> but iOS requires the user to be logged in 24/7/365 for basic functionality.

Repeating that outright lie doesn't strengthen it, Arlen. It just makes
you look like the clueless dumb ass you are.

> Google does not require that login into Google's mainframe servers.
> Apple does.

Google requires a login to use plenty of their services, Arlen. That's
an indisputable FACT.

> Note: You can say "don't log in" but I've done that. Apple will 
> unilaterally brick your iOS device if you stop logging into the servers
> for a period of time (two years in my case on two different iPads).

Nope. What you have admitted to doing is logging in with a bogus email
address and a password you never bothered to remember, then when asked
to verify it after not using your device for months and months, you
couldn't. And since you used a bogus email address, you made it so
recovery of your account was impossible, like the ignoramus you are -
then you turned around and blamed Apple and starting spouting your
bullshit. Pepperidge farm remembers, Arlen. 

> There's a reason Apple designed the iOS device to be a dumb terminal, JR.
> It can't do anything that you love about iOS without Apple server logins.
>
>>>    All have an active data connection to carrier towers & servers
>>>    Apparently on the Apple messaging mainframe server is kept a detailed 
>>>    tracking of iOS-owners' AppleID associated with their phone number.
>> 
>> Yes, and the Android cellular MMS message server keeps track of the
>> phone number and account details (including the name and other details)
>> of the user.
>
> So does the iOS cellular MMS service, Jolly Roger. Nobody said
> otherwise.

Try to keep up, dip shit. You pointed out that Apple's messaging service
keeps track of iMessage users account - and the same applies to Android,
whether it be your cellular provider or an messaging app like WhatsApp
or Signal.

>>> 2. iPhone sender tries to send a short video to iPhone & Android recipients
>>> 3. That attempt to send apparently goes over the Internet first to Apple 
>>>    mainframe servers which send back the decision of which of the
>>>    recipients AppleID's are logged into Apple messaging servers 
>>>    (and which are not).
>>>
>>>    (I don't yet know what happens if there is no Internet connection 
>>>    established by the sender's iPhone to Apple messaging servers though.)
>> 
>> Common sense should tell you that iMessage is an internet technology,
>
> Ah, but Android's default messaging is not - although RCS may change that.

Ah, but iOS's default messaging is not an internet service either,
Arlen. It's cellular as well. As you have been told countless times:
iMessage is *optional* and *opt-in*.

>> When you aren't signed into iMessage, you naturally can't send
>> messages through the service. So messages are sent as SMS/MMS messages
>> through your cellular provider instead. 
>
> Exactly.
> Without logging into Apple's mainframe servers, all the things you love 
> about your iPhone instantly cease to exist,. It's just a dumb terminal.

Bullshit. You're a fucking tool. 

>>> 4. Apple messaging servers accept only the videos whose AppleID's match
>>>    Apple's determination of who is logged into their messaging servers.
>>>    For those AppleIDs, Apple send the video over the Internet to the 
>>>    recipients who are logged into the Apple messaging mainframe servers.'
>>>
>>>    (I'm not sure what happens if the recipient is on an iPhone and yet
>>>    they don't have cellular data Internet or Wi-Fi Internet at the moment.
>>>    What if the iPhone recipient only has a carrier non-data connection?
>> 
>> No data connection and no internet means no messaging. Duh. 
>> Same for Android smartphones.
>
> I didn't say that. I said either or. 

Your words: "I'm not sure what happens if the recipient is on an iPhone
and yet they don't have cellular data Internet or Wi-Fi Internet"

No "either or".

>>>    How is it sent when the message could be sent either way, right? 
>> 
>> That "question" makes no sense as written.
>
> Either by WI-Fi Internet or by cellular data Internet.

Still not a question.

>>>    How is that message sent to iPhone owners?
>>>    a. Cellular-data Internet connection?
>>>    b. Wi-Fi Internet connection?
>>>    c. (It's probably not sent over the carrier's non-data connection.)
>> 
>> You can't send messages without a cellular connection or internet
>> connection.
>
> Again, there's the concept of either or that you need to study.

God, you're boring.

>> How in the holy fuck are you this clueless?
>> You regularly claim you know more about iPhones and technology than anyone
>> else here. 
>
> I just don't deal with iOS messaging since the iPads are just toys to me.

You don't know shit about basic messaging even on Android, as your posts
show, dumb ass.

>>> 5. Apparently Apple messaging servers do not accept for transit on 
>>>    their messaging mainframe servers any messages from the sender's 
>>>    iPhone intended for people not recognized by the Apple messaging
>>>    mainframe server. Those are rejected apparently.
>> 
>> Nope, wrong again. The iPhone doesn't even use the iMessage service for
>> Android recipients. 
>
> There must be a method on the phone that tells the iPhone which people are 
> logged into the Apple mainframes and which people are not logged into them.

Here's a clue for you: Asking if an account exists doesn't mean sending
a message through the service. You implied a message was sent and
rejected, which is not the case. Nothing is rejected. The app asks if an
iMessage account exists. If not, the app uses another method to send the
message. There is no "rejection".

>>> 6. For any message rejected by the Apple mainframe messaging servers, 
>>>    the senders iPhone is informed, again over the Internet of that fact.
>> 
>> Nope. See above.
>
> I'm not sure if you're right. See above.

You aren't really sure of much of anything.

>>> 7. Only at this point, apparently, does the sending iPhone resort to 
>>>    sending the messages to the carrier (although this brings up the 
>>>    question of whether only cellular data will work or if a local
>>>    Wi-Fi connection to the Internet to the carrier will also work).
>> 
>> Wrong again. The iPhone checks to see if the recipient is an iMessage
>> user, and if not sends the message through the cellular network instead.
>
> How does the iPhone know if the iMessage user is logged into the Apple 
> mainframe servers? I'm not logged into my Messages app on my iPad.

You're so fixated on "logging into mainframes" you can't see the forest
through the trees.

>>> 8. Now is the problem of which machine does the downsizing of the 
>>>    video, turning it into crap. Presumably the carrier does that.
>>>    Is that correct?
>> 
>> Yep. And each carrier has their own file size limits and compression
>> mechanism. 
>
> I'm not sure if that's the case, as Frank made an eloquent argument that 
> the compression to shit of the videos is happening on the iPhone itself.

Frank is wrong, and so are you. What's comical is this is well known to
anyone who knows anything about it. SMS/MMS messaging has been around
since like 2002, so it's no secret.

>>> 9. Once the carrier (presumably) downsizes the video, then it's sent
>>>    over the carrier's celltowers, one of which communicates with
>>>    the Android recipient's phone over the phone number identification.
>> 
>> Yup.
>
> We're not sure yet where the downsizing to shit happens. Frank's argument 
> is valid that the carriers don't want to do it as that would negate the 
> whole point of limiting the amount of data sent to the carriers.

Wrong.

>>> Thank you for helping to hone how the process works.
>> 
>> You could have looked this up on the web in seconds.
>
> I doubt it. Show me a full explanation on the net where it is
> explained.

Already did. If you reject reality and refuse to do your own research at
this point, that's your problem.

>>> I'm sure I got some things wrong above, and even if I got them right, there
>>> are still questions in the analysis above, so where do we need corrections?
>> 
>> "We" don't need any of this - your little exercise is rather pointless,
>> since all of this is common knowledge to anyone who knows anything about
>> technology, Arlen.
>
> Actually, none of us (including you) knows how it works, as all of us 
> (except you iKooks) have openly said we're not sure how it works.

LOL... Back to the juvenile insults, eh? That all you got left no that
you've been schooled, little boy? Pathetic.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#141267

From	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Date	2024-05-18 12:32 +0000
Message-ID	<v2a75j$2mb7$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#141256

Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:13:53 GMT :

> Again, the reason it is the carrier who compresses MMS videos is because
> each carrier has their own defined size limit.

If it were only the carrier, why isn't the compression symmetric?
 "Texting from Android to Android will see minor compression, 
  but it's compounded when going from iPhone to Android or 
  from Android to iPhone, since Apple's system gets in the way."
 <https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>

What is Apple's system doing that further reduces quality?

> No Apple login is required to use the basic functionality of an iPhone

How are you going to install apps without logging into Apple's servers?

>> Google does not require that login into Google's mainframe servers.
>> Apple does.
> 
> Google requires a login to use plenty of their services.

You can install apps on Android without logging into Google servers.

> Frank is wrong, and so are you. What's comical is this is well known to
> anyone who knows anything about it. SMS/MMS messaging has been around
> since like 2002, so it's no secret.

I found a cite which says the carrier is doing some of the compression.
 <https://www.alphr.com/android-sending-grainy-video-in-iphone-group/>
 "a video file sent from Android to iOS via MMS (Multimedia Messaging
  Service) is usually compressed by your cell phone carrier."

But if the carrier was doing all the compression, why isn't it symmetric?
 <https://appletoolbox.com/blurry-videos-when-sending-from-ios-to-android-check-these-tips/>
 "There's actually a very noticeable downgrade in quality when 
  sending content from an iOS device to and Android device. 
  That blurriness isn't as prevalent when sending media from 
  an Android to an Android."

What is Apple's system doing that further reduces quality?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#141275

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2024-05-18 16:54 +0000
Message-ID	<las4qrF67roU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141267

On 2024-05-18, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:13:53 GMT :
>
>> Again, the reason it is the carrier who compresses MMS videos is because
>> each carrier has their own defined size limit.
>
> If it were only the carrier, why isn't the compression symmetric?

It's very simple: The level of compression of MMS messages is decided by
each carrier. So when someone on AT&T send an MMS to someone on Verizon
(or the other way around), the received video will be compressed at a
different level. 

>  "Texting from Android to Android will see minor compression, 
>   but it's compounded when going from iPhone to Android or 
>   from Android to iPhone, since Apple's system gets in the way."
> <https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>

You apparently missed the two paragraphs just before that:

"The phenomenon can also affect group messages. As they say, once bad
apple can spoil the bunch, so if one of the recipients in your group is
on an Android phone, then the entire message will be sent over SMS.
Hence, all users will see blurry, barely watchable videos, even iPhone
users with iMessages enabled.

What gives? While it might seem like it’s the result of sabotage between
platforms, that’s not the case. It has to do with compression. Apple
handles the iPhone-to-iPhone delivery of texted videos, so no matter the
size, videos are sent and received in their original quality. However,
that’s not the case when not using Apple’s system from start to
finish—your carrier gets in the way, and that’s when things break down."

What the next paragraph you quoted is saying is when group messaging
with Android users, images and videos sent to them are sent as MMS
messages and therefore get compressed based on their carrier's MMS file
size limitations.

Learn to read for comprehension.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#141276

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2024-05-18 16:56 +0000
Message-ID	<las4tpF67roU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141267

On 2024-05-18, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:13:53 GMT :
>
>> No Apple login is required to use the basic functionality of an iPhone
>
> How are you going to install apps without logging into Apple's servers?

Most Android users also log into an App Store in order to install apps,
Arlen. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#141278

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2024-05-18 16:59 +0000
Message-ID	<las538F67roU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141267

On 2024-05-18, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:13:53 GMT :
>
>>> Google does not require that login into Google's mainframe servers.
>>> Apple does.
>> 
>> Google requires a login to use plenty of their services.
>
> You can install apps on Android without logging into Google servers.

Most Android users log into an App Store to install apps, Arlen. Also,
while your little "gotcha" may seem cute, you're ignoring the fact that
most Android users log into Google for their photos and so on. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#141279

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2024-05-18 17:03 +0000
Message-ID	<las5boF67roU6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141267

On 2024-05-18, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:13:53 GMT :
>
>> Frank is wrong, and so are you. What's comical is this is well known to
>> anyone who knows anything about it. SMS/MMS messaging has been around
>> since like 2002, so it's no secret.
>
> I found a cite which says the carrier is doing some of the compression.

I already told you that, dingus. You're not revealing anything new here.
Try and keep up. I know it's hard for you.
>
> But if the carrier was doing all the compression, why isn't it symmetric?
> <https://appletoolbox.com/blurry-videos-when-sending-from-ios-to-android-check-these-tips/>
>  "There's actually a very noticeable downgrade in quality when 
>   sending content from an iOS device to and Android device. 
>   That blurriness isn't as prevalent when sending media from 
>   an Android to an Android."
>
> What is Apple's system doing that further reduces quality?

If you had bothered to read on, the following paragraphs tell you the
answer:

"This occurs because iMessage is incredibly well-integrated and
efficient — Apple handles data delivery from one point to another. Once
you send something via SMS, *your carrier gets involved* and that data
gets *terribly compressed*.

While data compression affects all images and videos, it typically
impacts *larger or high-quality images the most*. Videos are also heavily
affected, and usually, end up extremely blurry and unwatchable."

Your conclusion is wrong. It's not "Apple's system" reducing quality. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]

csiph-web

Why are iPhone videos clear when sent to iPhones but blurry when sent to Android?

Contents

#141193

#141192

#141194

#141200

#141208

#141232

#141242

#141249

#141256

#141267

#141275

#141276

#141278

#141279