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Re: Chad Perrin

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  Re: Chad Perrin Everett L Williams II <rett@classicnet.net> - 2011-04-14 16:24 -0500
    Re: Chad Perrin Adam Prescott <adam@aprescott.com> - 2011-04-14 16:38 -0500
    Re: Chad Perrin Johnny Morrice <spoon@killersmurf.com> - 2011-04-14 18:14 -0500
      Re: Chad Perrin Vincent Manis <vmanis@telus.net> - 2011-04-14 19:35 -0500
        Re: Chad Perrin Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 19:59 -0500
    Re: Chad Perrin Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> - 2011-04-14 20:25 -0500
      Re: Chad Perrin Everett L Williams II <rett@classicnet.net> - 2011-04-15 12:12 -0500
        Re: Chad Perrin Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 12:42 -0500
      Re: Chad Perrin Matt Lawrence <matt@technoronin.com> - 2011-04-15 13:36 -0500
        Re: Chad Perrin Reid Thompson <reid.thompson@ateb.com> - 2011-04-15 14:25 -0500
    Re: Chad Perrin Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-15 08:12 -0500
    Re: Chad Perrin Kevin Mahler <kevin.mahler@yahoo.com> - 2011-04-15 15:51 -0500

#2880 — Re: Chad Perrin

[Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

*Hasn't anybody in the management of this forum the guts to either quiet 
or dispatch Chad Perrin before he manages to do more damage than he 
already has. He cannot be reasoned with, he sees all who disagree with 
him as the enemy, and he attacks constantly. However much he may 
contribute to Ruby, he will contribute to it's demise if he continues 
without moderation. He appears to be quite expert in Ruby, but if he 
attacks every other method of working as if it were the enemy, he cannot 
benefit the cause in either the short or the long run. In any case, he 
has certainly caused me to lose my taste for further adventures in Ruby. 
That is no great loss, but others might be. Please unsubscribe me from 
this list.

Everett L.(Rett) Williams II
*

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#2881

[Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Everett L Williams II <rett@classicnet.net
> wrote:

> *Hasn't anybody in the management of this forum the guts to either quiet or
> dispatch Chad Perrin before he manages to do more damage than he already
> has.


This is not how openness works. I also read almost every post to this
mailing list/forum, and I have not recently seen anything from Chad that is
damaging. I don't know what you have in mind here; perhaps you're referring
to the heated discussion about Excel as a programming language which
derailed because of meta-arguments over semantics?


> He cannot be reasoned with, he sees all who disagree with him as the enemy,
> and he attacks constantly.


This is not constructive; you're attacking someone personally and making
claims about them as an individual.


> However much he may contribute to Ruby, he will contribute to it's demise
> if he continues without moderation. He appears to be quite expert in Ruby,
> but if he attacks every other method of working as if it were the enemy, he
> cannot benefit the cause in either the short or the long run. In any case,
> he has certainly caused me to lose my taste for further adventures in Ruby.
> That is no great loss, but others might be.


I don't think starting a whole new thread just to attack an individual -- in
public, no less -- is a worthwhile contribution to this mailing list/forum,
regardless of what you think about Chad's views. Perhaps it would be better
to directly talk with the people in charge of ruby-talk.


> Please unsubscribe me from this list.
>

You may do so without direct assistance from the people who administer this
mailing list:

http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/community/mailing-lists/
<http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/community/mailing-lists/>or
http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/community/mailing-lists/manual-instructions/

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#2890

Obvious troll.

Also, past history of trolling
E.g. http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2010-07/msg00759.html

Evidence overwhelming.
Bugger off.

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#2897

On 2011-04-14, at 17:10, Chad Perrin wrote:
> For the record, I agree: Logo, at least in the UCBLogo implementation, is
> a "serious" programming language.  Its limitations as a language suitable
> to "real world" use are entirely a result of the fact that Logo was a
> victim of its own success; it did so well in the '80s as an educational
> language for young children that everybody assumed that was all it could
> do, ignoring its robust capabilities.  It is, in fact, in many ways the
> LISP originally envisioned by McCarthy (which is, in fact, in many ways
> less interesting than what Common Lisp and Scheme have become -- but is
> still an underrated language).

Indeed. The original designers of Logo, Danny Bobrow and Wally Feurzeig, explicitly described Logo as `baby Lisp'. I was involved in that effort a bit, and ended up producing an implementation of Logo, and teaching teachers how to use it for teaching purposes. That latter part soured me quite a lot on teaching computer science in public schools. Most of the teachers couldn't see any other purpose to Logo than manipulating the turtle, and they ended up seeing Logo as a kind of horrible drawing program. In fact, I stopped getting interest from teachers on this subject at almost exactly the time the original Mac and MacPaint were released. The wonderful stuff in Brian Harvey's _Computer Science Logo Style_ was totally beyond these teachers. (By the way, if you look on his website, you can download all three volumes of this series. Even for those who have no interest in Logo, these are fascinating books. http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh). 

Ruby and Logo share a certain flavor, including a syntax that is just a little bit hazy :). I kind of wish I were still teaching teachers, it would be fun to teach them Ruby. 

(My apologies to those who are looking for some Ruby talk in this message, there really isn't any.) 

-- vincent 

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#2903

[Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Vincent Manis <vmanis@telus.net> wrote:

> On 2011-04-14, at 17:10, Chad Perrin wrote:
> > For the record, I agree: Logo, at least in the UCBLogo implementation, is
> > a "serious" programming language.  Its limitations as a language suitable
> > to "real world" use are entirely a result of the fact that Logo was a
> > victim of its own success; it did so well in the '80s as an educational
> > language for young children that everybody assumed that was all it could
> > do, ignoring its robust capabilities.  It is, in fact, in many ways the
> > LISP originally envisioned by McCarthy (which is, in fact, in many ways
> > less interesting than what Common Lisp and Scheme have become -- but is
> > still an underrated language).
>
> Indeed. The original designers of Logo, Danny Bobrow and Wally Feurzeig,
> explicitly described Logo as `baby Lisp'. I was involved in that effort a
> bit, and ended up producing an implementation of Logo, and teaching teachers
> how to use it for teaching purposes. That latter part soured me quite a lot
> on teaching computer science in public schools. Most of the teachers
> couldn't see any other purpose to Logo than manipulating the turtle, and
> they ended up seeing Logo as a kind of horrible drawing program. In fact, I
> stopped getting interest from teachers on this subject at almost exactly the
> time the original Mac and MacPaint were released. The wonderful stuff in
> Brian Harvey's _Computer Science Logo Style_ was totally beyond these
> teachers. (By the way, if you look on his website, you can download all
> three volumes of this series. Even for those who have no interest in Logo,
> these are fascinating books. http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh).
>
> Ruby and Logo share a certain flavor, including a syntax that is just a
> little bit hazy :). I kind of wish I were still teaching teachers, it would
> be fun to teach them Ruby.
>
> (My apologies to those who are looking for some Ruby talk in this message,
> there really isn't any.)
>
> -- vincent
>


Logo was the first "programming" I ever did. We didn't have an official
curriculum that I know of, but me and another kid had to make a story with
it, so we had to give it commands to draw each scene. Ours was Sonic the
Hedgehog :P and I really enjoyed it, and think that is one of the reasons
that I stayed so interested in programming for all these years. (Though I
did have a qbasic course in HS, which I also loved).

By surprising coincidence, I was playing with it today, since Heroku had a
segment in their last newsletter about supporting it (
http://blog.heroku.com/archives/2011/4/1/announcing_heroku_for_logo)

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#2907

On Apr 14, 2011, at 14:24 , Everett L Williams II wrote:

> *Hasn't anybody in the management of this forum the guts to either quiet or dispatch Chad Perrin before he manages to do more damage than he already has.

While I find Chad to be a complete ass on many occasions, including (especially?) on the Functional programming thread, I don't see how it would even be feasible or reasonable to do anything. This "forum" as you call it is both a mailing list, a usenet group, and at least one web forum.

The "damage" that Chad causes is irritating at best. The rest is in your head.

> He cannot be reasoned with, he sees all who disagree with him as the enemy, and he attacks constantly.

I completely agree. And?

> However much he may contribute to Ruby, he will contribute to it's demise if he continues without moderation.

The ironic part is I know of absolutely no public contributions (gems, etc) to ruby coming from chad other than his participation on this mailing list.

Chad cannot contribute to Ruby's "demise"... at this point, you sound like a drama queen. Or maybe a teenage emo girl. Those might be equivalent.

> He appears to be quite expert in Ruby, but if he attacks every other method of working as if it were the enemy, he cannot benefit the cause in either the short or the long run. In any case, he has certainly caused me to lose my taste for further adventures in Ruby. That is no great loss, but others might be.

While that is certainly your choice... I'd suggest you man up and learn to ignore people you don't like. Chad != Ruby. The world (and the internet) is a harsh mistress and you need a thicker skin if you're to get anything done.

> Please unsubscribe me from this list.

You can unsubscribe yourself.

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#2957

[Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

*Ryan,*

Ryan Davis wrote:
> On Apr 14, 2011, at 14:24 , Everett L Williams II wrote:
>
>    
>> *Hasn't anybody in the management of this forum the guts to either quiet or dispatch Chad Perrin before he manages to do more damage than he already has.
>>      
> While I find Chad to be a complete ass on many occasions, including (especially?) on the Functional programming thread, I don't see how it would even be feasible or reasonable to do anything. This "forum" as you call it is both a mailing list, a usenet group, and at least one web forum.
>
> The "damage" that Chad causes is irritating at best. The rest is in your head.
>    
And in the head of every noob who stumbles into his arrogant and ill 
tempered rants.
>> He cannot be reasoned with, he sees all who disagree with him as the enemy, and he attacks constantly.
>>      
> I completely agree. And?
>
>    
>> However much he may contribute to Ruby, he will contribute to it's demise if he continues without moderation.
>>      
> The ironic part is I know of absolutely no public contributions (gems, etc) to ruby coming from chad other than his participation on this mailing list.
>
> Chad cannot contribute to Ruby's "demise"... at this point, you sound like a drama queen. Or maybe a teenage emo girl. Those might be equivalent.
>    
Cute, but I have been on the internet since it was ARPANET. My company 
used it to transfer an IBM compatible Pascal for the Australian AED for 
use on a project. As in your case, he merely irritates me, but his 
attacks on noobs ideas or anything that is not spelled as Ruby will 
chase of those newcomers before they can become active, at least in some 
cases. And, he accuses anyone who argues with him of being a troll. That 
is not something that is good for the language. If there is no 
moderation hereabouts that can at least admonish, then this is less and 
less likely to be a useful place. If that is being a drama queen or emo  
as you so sweetly put it, then I am guilty as accused. Since I am 
leaving, you and those like you will have to judge how long you can put 
up with such nonsense.

I have no idea of Chad's contributions or lack thereof. I have just 
noted that he often replies to noobs.
>> He appears to be quite expert in Ruby, but if he attacks every other method of working as if it were the enemy, he cannot benefit the cause in either the short or the long run. In any case, he has certainly caused me to lose my taste for further adventures in Ruby. That is no great loss, but others might be.
>>      
> While that is certainly your choice... I'd suggest you man up and learn to ignore people you don't like. Chad != Ruby. The world (and the internet) is a harsh mistress and you need a thicker skin if you're to get anything done.
>    
This isn't a testosterone joust. It is supposed to be a place where 
ideas are discussed and help is asked and offered. My suggestion to you 
is not to offer foolish advice that you would not offer in person.
It is certainly difficult to have any respect for an individual who has 
so little respect for teachers, when it is a skill that, by his own 
admission, he lacks. And, by the way, I can play just as rough as the 
next person, but I seldom find it necessary or desirable. Having 
examined Ruby fairly closely, I leave because I don't find it worth the 
effort, especially when that involves putting up with nonsense like 
Chad. I attempted to take the discussion offline, but now he complains 
that is harassment. Since there is no venue for complaint, I have posted 
in the forum, and I am leaving, so you may dissect the corpse as you will.

Everett L.(Rett) Williams II
>> Please unsubscribe me from this list.
>>      
> You can unsubscribe yourself.
>
>    

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#2960

[Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Everett L Williams II <rett@classicnet.net
> wrote:

> *Ryan,*
>
>
> Ryan Davis wrote:
>
>> On Apr 14, 2011, at 14:24 , Everett L Williams II wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> *Hasn't anybody in the management of this forum the guts to either quiet
>>> or dispatch Chad Perrin before he manages to do more damage than he already
>>> has.
>>>
>>>
>> While I find Chad to be a complete ass on many occasions, including
>> (especially?) on the Functional programming thread, I don't see how it would
>> even be feasible or reasonable to do anything. This "forum" as you call it
>> is both a mailing list, a usenet group, and at least one web forum.
>>
>> The "damage" that Chad causes is irritating at best. The rest is in your
>> head.
>>
>>
> And in the head of every noob who stumbles into his arrogant and ill
> tempered rants.
>
>  He cannot be reasoned with, he sees all who disagree with him as the
>>> enemy, and he attacks constantly.
>>>
>>>
>> I completely agree. And?
>>
>>
>>
>>> However much he may contribute to Ruby, he will contribute to it's demise
>>> if he continues without moderation.
>>>
>>>
>> The ironic part is I know of absolutely no public contributions (gems,
>> etc) to ruby coming from chad other than his participation on this mailing
>> list.
>>
>> Chad cannot contribute to Ruby's "demise"... at this point, you sound like
>> a drama queen. Or maybe a teenage emo girl. Those might be equivalent.
>>
>>
> Cute, but I have been on the internet since it was ARPANET. My company used
> it to transfer an IBM compatible Pascal for the Australian AED for use on a
> project. As in your case, he merely irritates me, but his attacks on noobs
> ideas or anything that is not spelled as Ruby will chase of those newcomers
> before they can become active, at least in some cases. And, he accuses
> anyone who argues with him of being a troll. That is not something that is
> good for the language. If there is no moderation hereabouts that can at
> least admonish, then this is less and less likely to be a useful place. If
> that is being a drama queen or emo  as you so sweetly put it, then I am
> guilty as accused. Since I am leaving, you and those like you will have to
> judge how long you can put up with such nonsense.
>
> I have no idea of Chad's contributions or lack thereof. I have just noted
> that he often replies to noobs.
>
>  He appears to be quite expert in Ruby, but if he attacks every other
>>> method of working as if it were the enemy, he cannot benefit the cause in
>>> either the short or the long run. In any case, he has certainly caused me to
>>> lose my taste for further adventures in Ruby. That is no great loss, but
>>> others might be.
>>>
>>>
>> While that is certainly your choice... I'd suggest you man up and learn to
>> ignore people you don't like. Chad != Ruby. The world (and the internet) is
>> a harsh mistress and you need a thicker skin if you're to get anything done.
>>
>>
> This isn't a testosterone joust. It is supposed to be a place where ideas
> are discussed and help is asked and offered. My suggestion to you is not to
> offer foolish advice that you would not offer in person.
> It is certainly difficult to have any respect for an individual who has so
> little respect for teachers, when it is a skill that, by his own admission,
> he lacks. And, by the way, I can play just as rough as the next person, but
> I seldom find it necessary or desirable. Having examined Ruby fairly
> closely, I leave because I don't find it worth the effort, especially when
> that involves putting up with nonsense like Chad. I attempted to take the
> discussion offline, but now he complains that is harassment. Since there is
> no venue for complaint, I have posted in the forum, and I am leaving, so you
> may dissect the corpse as you will.
>
>
> Everett L.(Rett) Williams II
>
>> Please unsubscribe me from this list.
>>>
>>>
>> You can unsubscribe yourself.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Unsubscribe here:  http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/community/mailing-lists/

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#2966

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011, Chad Perrin wrote:

> I agree.  I am not Ruby.  If you don't like me, ignore me.

I have a better suggestion, bring popcorn and watch the show...

-- Matt
It's not what I know that counts.
It's what I can remember in time to use.

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#2974

On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 03:36:42AM +0900, Matt Lawrence wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2011, Chad Perrin wrote:
> 
> > I agree.  I am not Ruby.  If you don't like me, ignore me.
> 
> I have a better suggestion, bring popcorn and watch the show...
                                   ^
                               and beer

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#2935

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Everett L Williams II
<rett@classicnet.net> wrote:
> *Hasn't anybody in the management of this forum the guts to either quiet or
> dispatch Chad Perrin before he manages to do more damage than he already
> has.

There is no moderation, hence nobody you can ask to suppress someone else.

> He cannot be reasoned with, he sees all who disagree with him as the
> enemy, and he attacks constantly. However much he may contribute to Ruby, he
> will contribute to it's demise if he continues without moderation. He
> appears to be quite expert in Ruby, but if he attacks every other method of
> working as if it were the enemy, he cannot benefit the cause in either the
> short or the long run.

I find that vastly exaggerated.  Also, what you present here qualifies
as a personal attack and apparently you see him as some form of enemy
as well.  Ironically based on your own ruling you would be banned as
well. :-)

> In any case, he has certainly caused me to lose my
> taste for further adventures in Ruby. That is no great loss, but others
> might be.

Frankly, I don't understand how he can turn you away from Ruby.  If
you have identified an individual as writing things that you don't
like to read you can easily ignore him - for example by _not_ reading
his messages.  Nobody forces you to read everything posted here.

> Please unsubscribe me from this list.

You have gotten onto this list, you should be able to find out how to get off.

Cheers

robert

-- 
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

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#2979

I just want to know how the usenet version of this thread has lasted 
over 3 years, totaling 265 messages and about 120 subject hijackings. Is 
there a script somewhere which keeps pushing old references?

BTW Everett plays the classic attention-starved adolescent here -- 
dramatically announcing his departure and then not departing.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

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