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Teaching Python

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  Teaching Python Passiday <passiday@gmail.com> - 2011-04-19 15:42 -0700
    Re: Teaching Python geremy condra <debatem1@gmail.com> - 2011-04-19 16:03 -0700
      Re: Teaching Python Sourav <souravmishra26@gmail.com> - 2011-04-19 20:48 -0700
        Re: Teaching Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-04-20 14:09 +1000
          Re: Teaching Python harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-20 22:38 -0500
    Re: Teaching Python Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2011-04-19 16:24 -0700
      Re: Teaching Python Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-04-20 10:06 +1000
        Re: Teaching Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-04-19 21:01 -0700
        Re: Teaching Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-04-20 10:17 +0000
          Re: Teaching Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-20 18:04 -0400
          Re: Teaching Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-04-20 21:27 +1000
        Re: Teaching Python Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2011-04-21 06:02 +0200
        Re: Teaching Python Westley Martínez <anikom15@gmail.com> - 2011-04-21 06:58 -0700
        Re: Teaching Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2011-04-21 17:11 +0100
          Re: Teaching Python harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-22 00:49 -0500
        Re: Teaching Python Westley Martínez <anikom15@gmail.com> - 2011-04-21 15:36 -0700
          Re: Teaching Python harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-22 01:04 -0500
            Re: Teaching Python Westley Martínez <anikom15@gmail.com> - 2011-04-22 06:49 -0700
        Re: Teaching Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2011-04-22 01:25 +0100
          Re: Teaching Python harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-22 00:40 -0500
        Re: Teaching Python Westley Martínez <anikom15@gmail.com> - 2011-04-21 18:39 -0700
    Re: Teaching Python Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2011-04-19 16:26 -0700
    Re: Teaching Python geremy condra <debatem1@gmail.com> - 2011-04-19 16:35 -0700
    Re: Teaching Python John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-04-19 20:25 -0500
      Re: Teaching Python Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6@gmail.com> - 2011-04-20 11:59 +1000
        Re: Teaching Python Sourav <souravmishra26@gmail.com> - 2011-04-19 20:49 -0700
    Re: Teaching Python harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-19 23:46 -0500

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#3599 — Teaching Python

Hello,

I am planning to teach Python to a group of high school students, who have in-depth interest in programming, hacking etc.

I am looking for some good material, what I could use as a basic guide when preparing the classes plan for the course - website or book, what would roll out the topic methodologically gradually. The target audience is someone who knows most basics of the programming, but doesn't mind being reminded about them now and then.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Passiday

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#3600

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Passiday <passiday@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am planning to teach Python to a group of high school students, who have in-depth interest in programming, hacking etc.
>
> I am looking for some good material, what I could use as a basic guide when preparing the classes plan for the course - website or book, what would roll out the topic methodologically gradually. The target audience is someone who knows most basics of the programming, but doesn't mind being reminded about them now and then.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions!

When you say 'hacking', you mean.... ?

Geremy Condra

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#3643

Hacking??

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#3649

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Sourav <souravmishra26@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hacking??

1) Tinkering, programming, building furniture with an axe.

2) Breaking and entering in the electronic world.

I assume the OP meant #1, although when I talk about "hacking" in this
sort of sense, I'm thinking more in terms of tinkering with the
language itself (Python scripting is writing .py files and running
them, Python hacking is grabbing the source, fiddling with it, and
running make). Unfortunately the second sense of the word is the only
one a lot of people know.

Chris Angelico

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#3761

Chris Angelico wrote:
>> Hacking??
> 1) Tinkering, programming, building furniture with an axe.
>
> 2) Breaking and entering in the electronic world.

Not so much.

In the comp.lang.python community hacking is most easily identified with 
the many one-liners that show up... that is the underlying spirit of 
hacking.

==== block quote from RMS "On Hacking"=======

It is hard to write a simple definition of something as varied as 
hacking, but I think what these activities have in common is 
playfulness, cleverness, and exploration. Thus, hacking means exploring 
the limits of what is possible, in a spirit of playful cleverness. 
Activities that display playful cleverness have "hack value".

Hackers typically had little respect for the silly rules that 
administrators like to impose, so they looked for ways around. For 
instance, when computers at MIT started to have "security" (that is, 
restrictions on what users could do), some hackers found clever ways to 
bypass the security, partly so they could use the computers freely, and 
partly just for the sake of cleverness (hacking does not need to be 
useful).

==== / block quote from RMS "On Hacking"=======

You can find the entire article here:

http://stallman.org/cgi-bin/showpage.cgi?path=/articles/on-hacking.html&term=hacking&type=norm&case=0


kind regards,
m harris

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#3603

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:03 PM, geremy condra <debatem1@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Passiday <passiday@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am planning to teach Python to a group of high school students, who have in-depth interest in programming, hacking etc.
>>
>> I am looking for some good material, what I could use as a basic guide when preparing the classes plan for the course - website or book, what would roll out the topic methodologically gradually. The target audience is someone who knows most basics of the programming, but doesn't mind being reminded about them now and then.
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions!
>
> When you say 'hacking', you mean.... ?

Presumably he meant the real meaning of the word, not what the press
made up and ran with.

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#3615

Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:03 PM, geremy condra <debatem1@gmail.com> wrote:
> > When you say 'hacking', you mean.... ?
>
> Presumably he meant the real meaning of the word, not what the press
> made up and ran with.

To be fair, the press already had its own pejorative meaning of “hack”
before the engineering and computing term, so the association was
probably inevitable.

-- 
 \         “I still have my Christmas Tree. I looked at it today. Sure |
  `\               enough, I couldn't see any forests.” —Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#3648

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 10:06:27 +1000, Ben Finney
<ben+python@benfinney.id.au> declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:

 
> To be fair, the press already had its own pejorative meaning of “hack”
> before the engineering and computing term, so the association was
> probably inevitable.
>
	Comes from all the hack writers they hire <G>
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#3678

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 10:06:27 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:

> Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:03 PM, geremy condra <debatem1@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > When you say 'hacking', you mean.... ?
>>
>> Presumably he meant the real meaning of the word, not what the press
>> made up and ran with.
> 
> To be fair, the press already had its own pejorative meaning of “hack”
> before the engineering and computing term, so the association was
> probably inevitable.

It's hardly just the press. "Hack" is a fine old English word:

"The jungle explorer hacked at the undergrowth with his machete."

"I was so hungry, I didn't take the time to neatly slice up the meat, but 
just hacked off a chunk and stuffed it in my mouth."

"Good lord, have you seen the completely botched job that carpenter has 
done? He's such a hack!"

Given the wide range of pejorative meanings of "hack" going back at least 
to the 19th century (to cut roughly without skill, a mediocre and 
talentless writer, a person engaged to perform unskilled and boring 
labour, a broken-down old horse, etc.), what's remarkable is that anyone 
decided to start use "hack" in a non-pejorative sense.



-- 
Steven

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#3752

On 4/20/2011 6:17 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> It's hardly just the press. "Hack" is a fine old English word:
>
> "The jungle explorer hacked at the undergrowth with his machete."
>
> "I was so hungry, I didn't take the time to neatly slice up the meat, but
> just hacked off a chunk and stuffed it in my mouth."
>
> "Good lord, have you seen the completely botched job that carpenter has
> done? He's such a hack!"
>
> Given the wide range of pejorative meanings of "hack" going back at least
> to the 19th century (to cut roughly without skill, a mediocre and
> talentless writer, a person engaged to perform unskilled and boring
> labour, a broken-down old horse, etc.), what's remarkable is that anyone
> decided to start use "hack" in a non-pejorative sense.

How about "The indefatigable exploror hacked through the seemingly 
impenetrable jungle for a month to arrive at the well-hidden ancient 
temple. Since it was itself covered in overgrowth, he hacked away 
another month to reveal it in its ancient glory." Make the appropriate 
substution of code jungles and hard-won prize.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#3759

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> It's hardly just the press. "Hack" is a fine old English word:
>

"Can you teach me how to hack?"

"Sure. Go to the tobacconists and buy him out, then smoke the lot.
You'll be hacking like a pro in no time!"

Chris Angelico

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#3762

Ben Finney, 20.04.2011 02:06:
> Dan Stromberg writes:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:03 PM, geremy condra wrote:
>>> When you say 'hacking', you mean.... ?
>>
>> Presumably he meant the real meaning of the word, not what the press
>> made up and ran with.
>
> To be fair, the press already had its own pejorative meaning of “hack”
> before the engineering and computing term

Not anywhere outside of the English language that I'm aware of, though. In 
German, it's a computing-only term that's used in both contexts by those 
who understand why the pointer is moving over the screen when moving the 
mouse, and almost exclusively in a bad context by those who write news 
paper articles (and, consequently, by those who innocently read them).

Stefan

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#3797

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 06:02:08AM +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Ben Finney, 20.04.2011 02:06:
> >Dan Stromberg writes:
> >
> >>On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:03 PM, geremy condra wrote:
> >>>When you say 'hacking', you mean.... ?
> >>
> >>Presumably he meant the real meaning of the word, not what the press
> >>made up and ran with.
> >
> >To be fair, the press already had its own pejorative meaning of “hack”
> >before the engineering and computing term
> 
> Not anywhere outside of the English language that I'm aware of,
> though. In German, it's a computing-only term that's used in both
> contexts by those who understand why the pointer is moving over the
> screen when moving the mouse, and almost exclusively in a bad
> context by those who write news paper articles (and, consequently,
> by those who innocently read them).
> 
> Stefan
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

O Lord, I'd hope we'd be speaking for English here.  But really, hack
has always been a negative term.  It's original definition is chopping,
breaking down, kind of like chopping down the security on someone elses
computer.  Now I don't know where the term originally came from, but the
definition the media uses is quite a fair use.  Why should we call
ourselves hackers anyways?  I don't smoke.  I'm no different from anyone
else, I just happen to know a lot about computers.  Should we call
people who know a lot about the economy hackers, too, or perhaps we
should call them economists....

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#3806

On 21/04/2011 14:58, Westley Martínez wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 06:02:08AM +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Ben Finney, 20.04.2011 02:06:
>>> Dan Stromberg writes:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:03 PM, geremy condra wrote:
>>>>> When you say 'hacking', you mean.... ?
>>>>
>>>> Presumably he meant the real meaning of the word, not what the press
>>>> made up and ran with.
>>>
>>> To be fair, the press already had its own pejorative meaning of “hack”
>>> before the engineering and computing term
>>
>> Not anywhere outside of the English language that I'm aware of,
>> though. In German, it's a computing-only term that's used in both
>> contexts by those who understand why the pointer is moving over the
>> screen when moving the mouse, and almost exclusively in a bad
>> context by those who write news paper articles (and, consequently,
>> by those who innocently read them).
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> O Lord, I'd hope we'd be speaking for English here.  But really, hack
> has always been a negative term.  It's original definition is chopping,
> breaking down, kind of like chopping down the security on someone elses
> computer.  Now I don't know where the term originally came from, but the
> definition the media uses is quite a fair use.  Why should we call
> ourselves hackers anyways?  I don't smoke.  I'm no different from anyone
> else, I just happen to know a lot about computers.  Should we call
> people who know a lot about the economy hackers, too, or perhaps we
> should call them economists....

As I understand it, "hacking" is about not doing the job "properly".
When trying to make something, a hacker will use the equivalent of duct
tape to hold things together.

A computer hacker doesn't write the requirements of the software or
draw Jackson Structured Programming diagrams, etc, but just thinks
about what's needed and starts writing the code.

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#3840

MRAB wrote:
>
> A computer hacker doesn't write the requirements of the software or
> draw Jackson Structured Programming diagrams, etc, but just thinks
> about what's needed and starts writing the code.

Very close...

... hackers don't necessarily care what something was designed to do, 
only what can be done with it...

... hackers love to push the envelope, playfully explore the full range 
of possibilities, and especially they delight to think outside the box 
(outside the frameworks of conformity and mediocrity)...

... hackers are philosophers and poets, and often musicians. Hackers 
write code because its beautiful, not because they're paid for it... 
hackers are can-do people who don't give a flying rip when they're told 
they can't !      ...  yeah, watch me.  :)

kind regards,
m harris

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#3825

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 05:11:32PM +0100, MRAB wrote:
> On 21/04/2011 14:58, Westley Martínez wrote:
> >On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 06:02:08AM +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> >>Ben Finney, 20.04.2011 02:06:
> >>>Dan Stromberg writes:
> >>>
> >>>>On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:03 PM, geremy condra wrote:
> >>>>>When you say 'hacking', you mean.... ?
> >>>>
> >>>>Presumably he meant the real meaning of the word, not what the press
> >>>>made up and ran with.
> >>>
> >>>To be fair, the press already had its own pejorative meaning of “hack”
> >>>before the engineering and computing term
> >>
> >>Not anywhere outside of the English language that I'm aware of,
> >>though. In German, it's a computing-only term that's used in both
> >>contexts by those who understand why the pointer is moving over the
> >>screen when moving the mouse, and almost exclusively in a bad
> >>context by those who write news paper articles (and, consequently,
> >>by those who innocently read them).
> >>
> >>Stefan
> >>
> >>--
> >>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> >O Lord, I'd hope we'd be speaking for English here.  But really, hack
> >has always been a negative term.  It's original definition is chopping,
> >breaking down, kind of like chopping down the security on someone elses
> >computer.  Now I don't know where the term originally came from, but the
> >definition the media uses is quite a fair use.  Why should we call
> >ourselves hackers anyways?  I don't smoke.  I'm no different from anyone
> >else, I just happen to know a lot about computers.  Should we call
> >people who know a lot about the economy hackers, too, or perhaps we
> >should call them economists....
> 
> As I understand it, "hacking" is about not doing the job "properly".
> When trying to make something, a hacker will use the equivalent of duct
> tape to hold things together.
> 
> A computer hacker doesn't write the requirements of the software or
> draw Jackson Structured Programming diagrams, etc, but just thinks
> about what's needed and starts writing the code.

That's a cowboy coder.

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#3841

Westley Martínez wrote:
> But really, hack
>>  >has always been a negative term.  It's original definition is chopping,
>>  >breaking down, kind of like chopping down the security on someone elses
>>  >computer.  Now I don't know where the term originally came from, but the
>>  >definition the media uses is quite a fair use.


Not so much...

... the term hacker was coined at the MIT lab back in the days of the 
PDP-10 /11.   We can thank RMS, and friends.


http://stallman.org/cgi-bin/showpage.cgi?path=/articles/on-hacking.html&term=hacking&type=norm&case=0


RMS coined the term "Cracker" for the pejorative use.

Hackers cause no harm; ever.   Hackers are elegant ethical people who 
love the craft for the sake of the craft and the beauty of their art.

Hackers do have a disdain for "Herbert," (if you're a Trek-ie you know 
what I mean)    ...and hackers love to taunt Herbert...

Herbert...!  Herbert...!  Herbert...!

  /\
/  \
----

Hackers are free and insist on freedom. Hackers would rather count on 
their fingers than be forced to use proprietary closed systems and 
software.  Hackers have no use for IBM, nor Microsoft.  (nor google)


I am and forever will be a joyful hacker....   :)




PS   The media is clueless...   (Herbert... Herbert... Herbert...)

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#3867

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:04:55AM -0500, harrismh777 wrote:
> Westley Martínez wrote:
> >But really, hack
> >> >has always been a negative term.  It's original definition is chopping,
> >> >breaking down, kind of like chopping down the security on someone elses
> >> >computer.  Now I don't know where the term originally came from, but the
> >> >definition the media uses is quite a fair use.
> 
> 
> Not so much...
> 
> ... the term hacker was coined at the MIT lab back in the days of
> the PDP-10 /11.   We can thank RMS, and friends.
> 
> 
> http://stallman.org/cgi-bin/showpage.cgi?path=/articles/on-hacking.html&term=hacking&type=norm&case=0
> 
> 
> RMS coined the term "Cracker" for the pejorative use.
> 
> Hackers cause no harm; ever.   Hackers are elegant ethical people
> who love the craft for the sake of the craft and the beauty of their
> art.
> 
> Hackers do have a disdain for "Herbert," (if you're a Trek-ie you
> know what I mean)    ...and hackers love to taunt Herbert...
> 
> Herbert...!  Herbert...!  Herbert...!
> 
>  /\
> /  \
> ----
> 
> Hackers are free and insist on freedom. Hackers would rather count
> on their fingers than be forced to use proprietary closed systems
> and software.  Hackers have no use for IBM, nor Microsoft.  (nor
> google)
> 
> 
> I am and forever will be a joyful hacker....   :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS   The media is clueless...   (Herbert... Herbert... Herbert...)
> 
> 
> 
> 

Well I guess that means I'm no hacker.  I love IBM and Microsoft (and
Google, too ^_^).  So what would you call me?  A developer?  I'm
unemployed.  A cracker?  Well I do like to exploit website's security
and occasionally social engineer my friends' e-mail accounts.

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#3829

On 21/04/2011 23:36, Westley Martínez wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 05:11:32PM +0100, MRAB wrote:
>> On 21/04/2011 14:58, Westley Martínez wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 06:02:08AM +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:
>>>> Ben Finney, 20.04.2011 02:06:
>>>>> Dan Stromberg writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:03 PM, geremy condra wrote:
>>>>>>> When you say 'hacking', you mean.... ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Presumably he meant the real meaning of the word, not what the press
>>>>>> made up and ran with.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be fair, the press already had its own pejorative meaning of “hack”
>>>>> before the engineering and computing term
>>>>
>>>> Not anywhere outside of the English language that I'm aware of,
>>>> though. In German, it's a computing-only term that's used in both
>>>> contexts by those who understand why the pointer is moving over the
>>>> screen when moving the mouse, and almost exclusively in a bad
>>>> context by those who write news paper articles (and, consequently,
>>>> by those who innocently read them).
>>>>
>>>> Stefan
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>> O Lord, I'd hope we'd be speaking for English here.  But really, hack
>>> has always been a negative term.  It's original definition is chopping,
>>> breaking down, kind of like chopping down the security on someone elses
>>> computer.  Now I don't know where the term originally came from, but the
>>> definition the media uses is quite a fair use.  Why should we call
>>> ourselves hackers anyways?  I don't smoke.  I'm no different from anyone
>>> else, I just happen to know a lot about computers.  Should we call
>>> people who know a lot about the economy hackers, too, or perhaps we
>>> should call them economists....
>>
>> As I understand it, "hacking" is about not doing the job "properly".
>> When trying to make something, a hacker will use the equivalent of duct
>> tape to hold things together.
>>
>> A computer hacker doesn't write the requirements of the software or
>> draw Jackson Structured Programming diagrams, etc, but just thinks
>> about what's needed and starts writing the code.
>
> That's a cowboy coder.

A cowboy coder is someone who's bad at coding, a hacker is someone
who's good at it.

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#3839

MRAB wrote:
>> That's a cowboy coder.
>
> A cowboy coder is someone who's bad at coding, a hacker is someone
> who's good at it.

A hacker is someone who loves to code and doesn't really care whether 
anyone else thinks they're really at it or not... although, yes, they 
generally are *very* good at it...

:)

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