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[semi OT]: Smartphones and Python?

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  [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 20:58 +0000
    Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-02-15 23:17 +0000
    Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-02-15 15:36 -0800
    Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? geremy condra <debatem1@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 18:19 -0800
      Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-15 18:38 -0800
      Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-15 18:38 -0800
        Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 20:26 -0700
          Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-16 06:53 -0800
          Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-16 06:53 -0800
            Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-16 08:22 -0700
              Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-16 17:38 +0000
                Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-16 17:50 +0000
                Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-16 18:45 -0700
              Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-16 21:25 -0800
                Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 18:51 -0700
                  Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-17 20:51 -0800
                    Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 23:05 -0600
                  Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-17 20:51 -0800
                  Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-02-19 00:45 +0100
                Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2012-02-19 04:46 +1100
                Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 17:36 -0700
                  Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-18 21:58 -0800
                  Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-18 21:58 -0800
                Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel@sequans.com> - 2012-02-20 12:53 +0100
              Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-16 21:25 -0800
              Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-02-19 00:41 +0100

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#20474 — [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python?

First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
for which I could write Python programs.

A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
tives?

It struck me this must be the best place to ask.

What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.

/Martin

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#20487

On 15/02/2012 20:58, Martin Schöön wrote:
> First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
> but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
> in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
> for which I could write Python programs.
>
> A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
> deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
> tives?
>
> It struck me this must be the best place to ask.
>
> What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
> And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
> and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.
>
Python has been ported to iOS, if you're thinking of going the Apple
route:

http://ipython.hozbox.com

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#20489

Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> writes:
> A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
> deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alternatives?

It works pretty well with Maemo, though phones with that are not so easy
to find.  My ex-officemate wrote some SL4A (Android) apps in Python and
said it was pretty easy to use, though some features were missing.  I
know that one missing feature was tkinter.

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#20498

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> wrote:
> First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
> but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
> in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
> for which I could write Python programs.
>
> A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
> deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
> tives?
>
> It struck me this must be the best place to ask.
>
> What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
> And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
> and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.

Please note that while SL4A is a pretty good mobile python environment
it doesn't support all of the Android API, which means it generally
isn't an easy way to develop fully-fledged Android apps.

Geremy Condra

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#20499

在 2012年2月16日星期四UTC+8上午10时19分15秒，geremy condra写道：
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
> > but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
> > in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
> > for which I could write Python programs.
> >
> > A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
> > deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
> > tives?
> >
> > It struck me this must be the best place to ask.
> >
> > What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
> > And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
> > and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.
> 
> Please note that while SL4A is a pretty good mobile python environment
> it doesn't support all of the Android API, which means it generally
> isn't an easy way to develop fully-fledged Android apps.
> 
> Geremy Condra
In the 4 G space of SW AP in Adndroid phones,
check Jython. But I think a better data compression 
modules  is more helpful. 

Patterns about arithmetic compressions and LZW are expired, but not  those in mp4 for the commercial use.

Thus, the time to install a complete OS on a tablet 
or mobile phone with LTE on the way.

We need smaller HD or flashes in these small devices.

 

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#20500

在 2012年2月16日星期四UTC+8上午10时19分15秒，geremy condra写道：
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
> > but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
> > in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
> > for which I could write Python programs.
> >
> > A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
> > deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
> > tives?
> >
> > It struck me this must be the best place to ask.
> >
> > What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
> > And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
> > and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.
> 
> Please note that while SL4A is a pretty good mobile python environment
> it doesn't support all of the Android API, which means it generally
> isn't an easy way to develop fully-fledged Android apps.
> 
> Geremy Condra
In the 4 G space of SW AP in Adndroid phones,
check Jython. But I think a better data compression 
modules  is more helpful. 

Patterns about arithmetic compressions and LZW are expired, but not  those in mp4 for the commercial use.

Thus, the time to install a complete OS on a tablet 
or mobile phone with LTE on the way.

We need smaller HD or flashes in these small devices.

 

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#20501

On 02/15/2012 07:38 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> In the 4 G space of SW AP in Adndroid phones,
> check Jython. But I think a better data compression 
> modules  is more helpful. 

Jython, though a very cool and useful implementation, relies on the Java
virtual machine to run.  It does not yet run on Dalvik, nor is it clear
that it ever will.  The project to port jython to Dalvik, but it died
and the authors said, just use Android scripting.  lame.

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#20512

The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be 
expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and  ported to other languages and platforms
easily.

Then I personally prefer python.

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#20513

The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be 
expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and  ported to other languages and platforms
easily.

Then I personally prefer python.

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#20514

On 02/16/2012 07:53 AM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
> are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be 
> expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and  ported to other languages and platforms
> easily.

Umm what does this have to do with anything?

You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
patents.  Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
are very different.  And no expired patents are going to change that
fact.  Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

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#20521

On 2012-02-16, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote:


> You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
> Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
> patents.  Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
> are very different.  And no expired patents are going to change that
> fact.  Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

I got curious about Dalvik, and was looking at the Wikipedia page,
where it says that programs for Android are compiled into bytecode in
JVM compatible .class files.  Those files are then converted into .dex
files to run on Davlik.

I don't know much at all about Jython, but if it generates JVM byte
code, mightn't the same conversion to .dex be applicable?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! What I want to find
                                  at               out is -- do parrots know
                              gmail.com            much about Astro-Turf?

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#20522

On 2012-02-16, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2012-02-16, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
>> Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
>> patents.  Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
>> are very different.  And no expired patents are going to change that
>> fact.  Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.
>
> I got curious about Dalvik, and was looking at the Wikipedia page,
> where it says that programs for Android are compiled into bytecode in
> JVM compatible .class files.  Those files are then converted into
> .dex files to run on Davlik.
>
> I don't know much at all about Jython, but if it generates JVM byte
> code, mightn't the same conversion to .dex be applicable?

Apparently there was a project to do just that:

  http://code.google.com/p/jythonroid/

But it's been abandonded in favor of SL4A, which offers a 
PythonForAndroid_r4.apk download.  There's a book about Python on
Android via SL4A called _Pro_Android_Python_with_SL4A_.

  http://www.apress.com/9781430235699

Interesting...
  
-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! World War III?
                                  at               No thanks!
                              gmail.com            

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#20532

On 02/16/2012 10:38 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> I got curious about Dalvik, and was looking at the Wikipedia page,
> where it says that programs for Android are compiled into bytecode in
> JVM compatible .class files.  Those files are then converted into .dex
> files to run on Davlik.
> 
> I don't know much at all about Jython, but if it generates JVM byte
> code, mightn't the same conversion to .dex be applicable?

I think it has to do with the fact that Jython does dynamic class
generation and loading.  Similarly I don't think JBoss or Tomcat could
be ported easily to Dalvik without making lots of changes to the class
loading stuff.  But I know nothing about Java, so I could be way wrong here.

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#20536

在 2012年2月16日星期四UTC+8下午11时22分44秒，Michael Torrie写道：
> On 02/16/2012 07:53 AM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> > The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
> > are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be 
> > expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and  ported to other languages and platforms
> > easily.
> 
> Umm what does this have to do with anything?
> 
> You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
> Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
> patents.  Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
> are very different.  And no expired patents are going to change that
> fact.  Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones.
I don't think any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run applications.

The memory systems in mobile phones are different from
PCs. This is the current situation in the consumer
electronics sector.

 

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#20576 — Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

On 02/16/2012 10:25 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones. I don't think
> any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run
> applications.

Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...

I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!).  Android is
not simply a customized linux distribution.  It's a special application
environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
machine.  Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from
the developers' and end users' points of view.  Linux is just not a part
of the user experience at all.  It is true that Dalvik can call into
native linux code, but native linux applications typically aren't a part
of the Android user experience.

Thus you can't just install any JVM on android.  Thus cpython or jython
just isn't part of it.  For one I don't know of any sun-compatible JVM
that has been ported to ARM.  For two, there aren't any hooks into the
Android UI APIs even if you could get it running.

Android is even being ported to the QNX kernel by the Blackberry folks,
so they can have android compatibility on next-generation blackberries
that run their own native OS.

> The memory systems in mobile phones are different from PCs. This is
> the current situation in the consumer electronics sector.

I do not understand what you are saying, or at least why you are saying
this.  But I don't understand most of your posts.

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#20580 — Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

在 2012年2月18日星期六UTC+8上午9时51分13秒，Michael Torrie写道：
> On 02/16/2012 10:25 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> > Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones. I don't think
> > any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run
> > applications.
> 
> Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...
> 
> I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
> that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!).  Android is
> not simply a customized linux distribution.  It's a special application
> environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
> machine.  Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
> hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from

Android is a Linux OS kernal plus a  virtual machine  which supports GUI  services  and a JIT compiler in law suites charged by Oracles now. 

A different set of shell tool to write some  AP is not 
a new OS. 

It can be called a new IDE which supports manny services not well maintained by the  free linux 
contributors in a loosely unorganized way. 
 
> the developers' and end users' points of view.  Linux is just not a part
> of the user experience at all.  It is true that Dalvik can call into
> native linux code, but native linux applications typically aren't a part
> of the Android user experience.
> 
> Thus you can't just install any JVM on android.  Thus cpython or jython
> just isn't part of it.  For one I don't know of any sun-compatible JVM
> that has been ported to ARM.  For two, there aren't any hooks into the
> Android UI APIs even if you could get it running.
> 
> Android is even being ported to the QNX kernel by the Blackberry folks,
> so they can have android compatibility on next-generation blackberries
> that run their own native OS.
> 
> > The memory systems in mobile phones are different from PCs. This is
> > the current situation in the consumer electronics sector.
> 


> I do not understand what you are saying, or at least why you are saying
> this.  But I don't understand most of your posts.

You can use VMware like techniques to emulate another OS
to support AP of different formats. This is not new at 
all. 
i

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#20582 — Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

On 2/17/2012 10:51 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> 在 2012年2月18日星期六UTC+8上午9时51分13秒，Michael Torrie写道：
>> On 02/16/2012 10:25 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
>> > Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones. I don't think
>> > any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run
>> > applications.
>> 
>> Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...
>> 
>> I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
>> that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!).  Android is
>> not simply a customized linux distribution.  It's a special application
>> environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
>> machine.  Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
>> hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from
> 
> Android is a Linux OS kernal plus a  virtual machine  which supports GUI  services  and a JIT compiler in law suites charged by Oracles now. 
> 
> A different set of shell tool to write some  AP is not 
> a new OS. 

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, GUI adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod
application incididunt ut labore et dolore magna Android. Ut linux ad
minim veniam, quis python exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip
ex hardware commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in Dalvik in
voluptate velit esse cillum Java eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur
sint kernel OS non proident, sunt in culpa qui shell deserunt mollit
Oracle id est laborum.


Sorry for the noise, but I'm hoping I can corrupt the bot's dictionary
to make it more obvious.

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#20581 — Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

在 2012年2月18日星期六UTC+8上午9时51分13秒，Michael Torrie写道：
> On 02/16/2012 10:25 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> > Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones. I don't think
> > any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run
> > applications.
> 
> Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...
> 
> I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
> that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!).  Android is
> not simply a customized linux distribution.  It's a special application
> environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
> machine.  Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
> hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from

Android is a Linux OS kernal plus a  virtual machine  which supports GUI  services  and a JIT compiler in law suites charged by Oracles now. 

A different set of shell tool to write some  AP is not 
a new OS. 

It can be called a new IDE which supports manny services not well maintained by the  free linux 
contributors in a loosely unorganized way. 
 
> the developers' and end users' points of view.  Linux is just not a part
> of the user experience at all.  It is true that Dalvik can call into
> native linux code, but native linux applications typically aren't a part
> of the Android user experience.
> 
> Thus you can't just install any JVM on android.  Thus cpython or jython
> just isn't part of it.  For one I don't know of any sun-compatible JVM
> that has been ported to ARM.  For two, there aren't any hooks into the
> Android UI APIs even if you could get it running.
> 
> Android is even being ported to the QNX kernel by the Blackberry folks,
> so they can have android compatibility on next-generation blackberries
> that run their own native OS.
> 
> > The memory systems in mobile phones are different from PCs. This is
> > the current situation in the consumer electronics sector.
> 


> I do not understand what you are saying, or at least why you are saying
> this.  But I don't understand most of your posts.

You can use VMware like techniques to emulate another OS
to support AP of different formats. This is not new at 
all. 
i

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20598 — Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

> For one I don't know of any sun-compatible JVM
> that has been ported to ARM.

http://www.senecass.com/projects/OpenJDK-ARM/
"This work has been completed, and is now in OpenJDK HEAD. This page is 
now mostly for historical documentation."

Also, http://openjdk.java.net/projects/zero/ (I know my colleagues from 
Red Hat are involved, because we are very interested in supporting more 
than just Intel chips well).

Best,

Matěj

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#20589 — Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

On 02/18/2012 12:51 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 02/16/2012 10:25 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
>> Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones. I don't think
>> any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run
>> applications.
>
> Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...
>
> I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
> that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!).  Android is
> not simply a customized linux distribution.

Strictly speaking, Android *is* a customized Linux distribution; what it 
is not is Android is not a GNU/Linux distribution.

> It's a special application
> environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
> machine.  Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
> hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from
> the developers' and end users' points of view.  Linux is just not a part
> of the user experience at all.  It is true that Dalvik can call into
> native linux code, but native linux applications typically aren't a part
> of the Android user experience.

Android does have a full Linux experience; what it lacks is the GNU 
experience. Unlike "normal" Linux distros, Android does not use GNU 
userspace, instead it have its own userspace based on bionic, toolbox, 
and dalvik. Linux is a core part of Android's user and developer's 
experience.

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