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Groups > comp.lang.python > #20242 > unrolled thread

Re: Python usage numbers

Started byChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
First post2012-02-12 12:28 +1100
Last post2012-02-15 11:56 +0200
Articles 9 on this page of 109 — 31 participants

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  Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 12:28 +1100
    Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 02:23 +0000
      Re: Python usage numbers Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 18:36 -0800
        Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 15:38 +1100
          Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 05:51 +0000
            Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 17:08 +1100
            Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 10:48 -0500
              Re: Python usage numbers Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-02-12 11:47 -0500
                Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 12:11 -0500
                  Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 22:49 +0000
            Re: Python usage numbers Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2012-02-12 15:55 +0000
            Re: Python usage numbers rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 08:50 -0800
              Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 12:21 -0500
              Re: Python usage numbers Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> - 2012-02-12 12:36 -0500
                entering unicode  (was Python usage numbers) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 19:09 -0800
                  Re: entering unicode  (was Python usage numbers) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-19 03:44 +0000
                    Re: entering unicode (was Python usage numbers) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-19 00:52 -0800
              How do you Unicode proponents type your non-ASCII characters? (was: Python usage numbers) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-02-13 09:43 +1100
              Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 22:56 +0000
          Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 10:13 -0500
            Re: Python usage numbers Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-12 17:07 -0500
              Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 17:22 -0500
            Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 09:14 +1100
              Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 17:27 -0500
                Re: Python usage numbers Dave Angel <davea@dejaviewphoto.com> - 2012-02-12 17:40 -0500
                Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 23:29 +0000
                  Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 18:41 -0500
                  Re: Python usage numbers Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-02-12 19:03 -0500
                  Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 11:59 +1100
                    Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 20:11 -0500
            Re: Python usage numbers Christian Heimes <lists@cheimes.de> - 2012-02-13 01:00 +0100
            Re: Python usage numbers Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-02-12 21:37 -0500
            Re: Python usage numbers Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-12 22:09 -0500
              Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 22:57 -0500
                Re: Python usage numbers Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-02-13 15:19 +1100
                  Re: Python usage numbers Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 12:26 -0600
              Re: Python usage numbers jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 00:00 -0800
        Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 06:10 +0000
          Re: Python usage numbers Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 01:05 -0600
            Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 09:12 +0000
              Re: Python usage numbers Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 05:11 -0600
                Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 22:30 +0000
                  Re: Python usage numbers Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-02-12 17:50 -0500
              Re: Python usage numbers Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2012-02-12 17:58 +0000
          Re: Python usage numbers Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 20:48 -0800
            Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 16:03 +1100
            OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-13 08:05 +0000
              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 08:01 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-13 16:12 +0000
                  Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 08:27 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 11:38 -0700
                  Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 13:01 -0800
                    Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 08:27 +1100
                    Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 21:46 +0000
                    Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-14 00:19 +0000
                      Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 17:07 -0800
                    Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 18:29 -0700
                      Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 17:13 -0800
                        Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 13:13 +1100
                        Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 02:39 +0000
                        Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 00:28 -0700
                          Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 07:02 -0800
                            Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 16:15 +0000
                              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 10:34 -0800
                                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] random joe <pywin32@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 10:49 -0800
                            Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-02-26 12:14 +0000
                        Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-18 04:16 -0500
                    Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] John O'Hagan <research@johnohagan.com> - 2012-02-14 19:41 +1100
                      Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 16:21 -0800
                        Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 11:44 +1100
                          Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 17:26 -0800
                            Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] John O'Hagan <research@johnohagan.com> - 2012-02-15 19:56 +1100
                              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 07:04 -0800
                                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-15 15:18 +0000
                                  Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 08:27 -0800
                                    Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-15 17:16 +0000
                                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 09:46 -0700
                            Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-02-26 12:44 +0000
                              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-26 12:35 -0800
                                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-27 07:50 +1100
                                  Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-26 14:32 -0800
                              Re: OT: Entitlements Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-02-27 07:46 +1100
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 07:47 +1100
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 14:46 -0700
                  Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 16:39 -0800
                    Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 18:36 -0700
                    Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 12:37 +1100
                      Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 17:37 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Tim Wintle <tim.wintle@teamrubber.com> - 2012-02-13 16:41 +0000
                  Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 16:40 -0800
                    RE: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-02-17 20:09 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-14 11:31 +0000
                  Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 07:06 -0500
                  Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 16:48 -0800
                    Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 12:32 +1100
                    Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-15 09:47 +0000
                      Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 09:58 +0000
                        Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-15 10:04 +0000
                          Kill files [was Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-15 10:27 +0000
                            Re: Kill files [was Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]] Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-02-15 11:29 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 04:56 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-02-14 09:37 -0500
      Re: Python usage numbers Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-02-12 09:14 +0100
        Re: Python usage numbers Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-02-12 09:26 +0100
          Re: Python usage numbers Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 12:11 +0000
            Re: Python usage numbers alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-02-12 18:55 +0000
              Re: Python usage numbers jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 11:52 -0800
                French and IDLE on Windows  (was Re: Python usage numbers) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-12 18:30 -0500
          Re: Python usage numbers Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2012-02-15 11:56 +0200

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#20395 — Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]

Fromrusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>
Date2012-02-14 04:56 -0800
SubjectRe: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
Message-ID<49def9d0-c9b7-44ba-af2d-073f01f0ffcd@ir9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#20347
On Feb 13, 9:01 pm, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And just how much healthcare dollars are you entitled to exactly? Can
> you put your entitlement into some form of monetary value?

Rick hats off to you man -- you are damn good! Did you study at a top-
troll-school?
eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

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#20398 — Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]

FromDennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com>
Date2012-02-14 09:37 -0500
SubjectRe: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
Message-ID<mailman.5799.1329230243.27778.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#20347
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 16:41:34 +0000, Tim Wintle
<tim.wintle@teamrubber.com> wrote:

>Imagine you go to a doctor and say "I've got the flu, can you give me
>antibiotics".
>
	If by this you mean "influenza" then..


>
>In a Public healthcare system:
> * The doctor is paid no matter what.
> * His job is to stop the population becoming ill.
> * By reducing illnesses he reduces his workload, without reducing his
>wage
>
>... so he'll only give you antibiotics if he feels you are at serious
>risk, and giving you antibiotics carries less risk for the population
>than the risk of the population getting immunities.
>
... a good doctor won't give you any antibiotics -- they don't work on
viruses...

	An infection of e. coli, OTOH...
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#20256

FromMatej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com>
Date2012-02-12 09:14 +0100
Message-ID<jh7s7h$o70$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
In reply to#20244
On 12.2.2012 03:23, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> The use-case given is:
>
> "I have a file containing text. I can open it in an editor and see it's
> nearly all ASCII text, except for a few weird and bizarre characters like
> £ © ± or ö. In Python 2, I can read that file fine. In Python 3 I get an
> error. What should I do that requires no thought?"
>
> Obvious answers:
>
> - Try decoding with UTF8 or Latin1. Even if you don't get the right
> characters, you'll get *something*.
>
> - Use open(filename, encoding='ascii', errors='surrogateescape')
>
> (Or possibly errors='ignore'.)

These are not good answer, IMHO. The only answer I can think of, really, is:

- pack you luggage, your submarine waits on you to peel onions in it 
(with reference to the Joel's article). Meaning, really, you should 
learn your craft and pull up your head from the sand. There is a wider 
world around you.

(and yes, I am a Czech, so I need at least latin-2 for my language).

Best,

Matěj

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#20257

FromMatej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com>
Date2012-02-12 09:26 +0100
Message-ID<jh7suk$ods$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
In reply to#20256
On 12.2.2012 09:14, Matej Cepl wrote:
>> Obvious answers:
>>
>> - Try decoding with UTF8 or Latin1. Even if you don't get the right
>> characters, you'll get *something*.
>>
>> - Use open(filename, encoding='ascii', errors='surrogateescape')
>>
>> (Or possibly errors='ignore'.)
>
> These are not good answer, IMHO. The only answer I can think of, really,
> is:

Slightly less flameish answer to the question “What should I do, 
really?” is a tough one: all these suggested answers are bad because 
they don’t deal with the fact, that your input data are obviously 
broken. The rest is just pure GIGO … without fixing (and I mean, really, 
fixing, not ignoring the problem, which is what the previous answers 
suggest) your input, you’ll get garbage on output. And you should be 
thankful to py3k that it shown the issue to you.

BTW, can you display the following line?

Příliš žluťoučký kůň úpěl ďábelské ódy.

Best,

Matěj

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#20267

FromMark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2012-02-12 12:11 +0000
Message-ID<mailman.5723.1329048677.27778.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#20257
On 12/02/2012 08:26, Matej Cepl wrote:
> On 12.2.2012 09:14, Matej Cepl wrote:
>>> Obvious answers:
>>>
>>> - Try decoding with UTF8 or Latin1. Even if you don't get the right
>>> characters, you'll get *something*.
>>>
>>> - Use open(filename, encoding='ascii', errors='surrogateescape')
>>>
>>> (Or possibly errors='ignore'.)
>>
>> These are not good answer, IMHO. The only answer I can think of, really,
>> is:
>
> Slightly less flameish answer to the question “What should I do,
> really?” is a tough one: all these suggested answers are bad because
> they don’t deal with the fact, that your input data are obviously
> broken. The rest is just pure GIGO … without fixing (and I mean, really,
> fixing, not ignoring the problem, which is what the previous answers
> suggest) your input, you’ll get garbage on output. And you should be
> thankful to py3k that it shown the issue to you.
>
> BTW, can you display the following line?
>
> Příliš žluťoučký kůň úpěl ďábelské ódy.
>
> Best,
>
> Matěj

Yes in Thunderbird, Notepad, Wordpad and Notepad++ on Windows Vista, 
can't be bothered to try any other apps.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#20288

Fromalister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com>
Date2012-02-12 18:55 +0000
Message-ID<WWTZq.137122$WX2.134161@newsfe28.ams2>
In reply to#20267
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:11:01 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 12/02/2012 08:26, Matej Cepl wrote:
>> On 12.2.2012 09:14, Matej Cepl wrote:
>>>> Obvious answers:
>>>>
>>>> - Try decoding with UTF8 or Latin1. Even if you don't get the right
>>>> characters, you'll get *something*.
>>>>
>>>> - Use open(filename, encoding='ascii', errors='surrogateescape')
>>>>
>>>> (Or possibly errors='ignore'.)
>>>
>>> These are not good answer, IMHO. The only answer I can think of,
>>> really,
>>> is:
>>
>> Slightly less flameish answer to the question “What should I do,
>> really?” is a tough one: all these suggested answers are bad because
>> they don’t deal with the fact, that your input data are obviously
>> broken. The rest is just pure GIGO … without fixing (and I mean,
>> really,
>> fixing, not ignoring the problem, which is what the previous answers
>> suggest) your input, you’ll get garbage on output. And you should be
>> thankful to py3k that it shown the issue to you.
>>
>> BTW, can you display the following line?
>>
>> Příliš žluťoučký kůň úpěl ďábelské ódy.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Matěj
> 
> Yes in Thunderbird, Notepad, Wordpad and Notepad++ on Windows Vista,
> can't be bothered to try any other apps.

Pan seems to be fine , they at least look like letters not just blocks




-- 
Appearances often are deceiving.
		-- Aesop

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#20289

Fromjmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com>
Date2012-02-12 11:52 -0800
Message-ID<f023df6a-5eb4-4ed1-9332-1b590948fdc9@gr6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#20288

There is so much to say on the subject, I do not know
where to start. Some points.

Today, Sunday, 12 February 2012, 90%, if not more, of the
Python applications supposed to work with text and I'm toying
with are simply not working. Two reasons:
1) Most of the devs understand nothing or not enough on the
field of the coding of the characters.
2) In gui applications, most of the devs understand
nothing or not enough in the keyboard keys/chars handling.

---

I know Python since version 1.5.2 or 1.5.6 (?). Among the
applications I wrote, my fun is in writing GUI interactive
interpreters with Python 2 or 3, tkinter, Tkinter, wxPython,
PySide, PyQt4 on Windows.

Believe or not, my interactive interpreters are the only
ones where I can enter text and where text is displayed
correctly. IDLE, wxPython/PyShell, DrPython, ... all
are failing. (I do not count console applications).

Python popularity? I have no popularity-meter. What I know:
I can not type French text in IDLE on Windows. It is like
this since ~ten years and I never saw any complain about
this. (The problem in bad programmation).

Ditto for PyShell in wxPython. I do not count, the number of
corrections I proposed. In one version, it takes me 18 months
until finally decided to propose a correction. During this
time, I never heard of the problem. (Now, it is broken
again).

---

Is there a way to fix this actual status?
- Yes, and *very easily*.

Will it be fixed?
- No, because there is no willingness to solve it.

---

Roy Smith's quote: "... that we'll all just be
using UTF-32, ..."

Considering PEP 393, Python is not taking this road.

---

How many devs know, one can not write text in French with
the iso-8859-1 coding? (see pep 393)

How can one explain, corporates like MS or Apple with their
cp1252 or mac-roman codings succeeded to know this?

Ditto for foundries (Adobe, LinoType, ...)

---

Python is 20 years old. It was developped with ascii in
mind. Python was not born, all this stuff was already
a no problem with Windows and VB.
Even a step higher, Windows was no born, this was a no
problem at DOS level (eg TurboPascal), 30 years ago!

Design mistake.

---

Python 2 introduced the <unicode> type. Very nice.
Problem. The introduction of the automatic coercion
ascii-"unicode", which somehow breaks everything.

Very bad design mistake. (In my mind, the biggest one).

---

One day, I fell on the web on a very old discussion
about Python related to the introduction of unicode in
Python 2. Something like:

Python core dev (it was VS or AP): "... lets go with ucs-4
and we have no problem in the future ...".

Look at the situation today.

---

And so one.

---

Conclusion. A Windows programmer is better served by
downloading VB.NET Express. A end Windows user is
better served with an application developped with VB.NET
Express.

I find somehow funny, Python is able to produce this:

>>> (1.1).hex()
'0x1.199999999999ap+0'
>>>

and on the other side, Python, Python applications,
are not able to deal correctly with text entering
and text displaying. Probably, the two most important
tasks a "computer" has to do!

jmf

PS I'm not a computer scientist, only a computer user.

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#20311 — French and IDLE on Windows (was Re: Python usage numbers)

FromTerry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Date2012-02-12 18:30 -0500
SubjectFrench and IDLE on Windows (was Re: Python usage numbers)
Message-ID<mailman.5743.1329089434.27778.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#20289
On 2/12/2012 2:52 PM, jmfauth wrote:

> Python popularity? I have no popularity-meter. What I know:
> I can not type French text in IDLE on Windows. It is like

I am pretty sure others have managed to. tk and hence idle handle the 
entire BMP subset of unicode just fine once they get them. Except for 
the apple version, which has just been fixed so French entry should 
work. Showing characters on the screen requires an appropriate font. 
http://bugs.python.org/issue4281 was the result of a font problem.

> this since ~ten years and I never saw any complain about
> this.

Neither have I, except for the issue above I just found. So there is 
nothing obvious to fix.

If you have a problem, give the specifics here and lets see if someone 
has a solution.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#20434

FromAnssi Saari <as@sci.fi>
Date2012-02-15 11:56 +0200
Message-ID<vg3k43ol8sj.fsf@sci.fi>
In reply to#20257
Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> writes:

> Slightly less flameish answer to the question “What should I do,
> really?” is a tough one: all these suggested answers are bad because
> they don’t deal with the fact, that your input data are obviously
> broken. The rest is just pure GIGO … 

Well, sure, but it happens that input data is broken and not fixable.
For example, I did a little program to display email headers like the
old frm that was bundled with elm, only with support for MIME decoding
of the headers. Obviously lots of email software is still completely
broken regarding MIME and also multi-line headers. However, something
useful can still be extracted from that broken data.

> BTW, can you display the following line?
>
> Příliš žluťoučký kůň úpěl ďábelské ódy.

Looks fine to me. You used an ellipsis too above. Well, I don't know
what it shold look like exactly. Lots of accents. Hmm, Google says it
means "The quick brown fox cried too lazy"? Seems appropriate :) BTW, I'm
sending this via Usenet, I wonder what happens in the mail-news gateway?

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