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GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ?

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  GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-12 17:18 +0300
    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-07-12 11:32 -0400
      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-12 18:52 +0300
        Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-12 19:32 +0300
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-12 16:38 +0000
            Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 02:47 +1000
            Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-12 19:04 -0400
              Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 08:48 +0300
                Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 15:53 +1000
                  Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 09:07 +0300
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 16:22 +1000
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 09:28 +0300
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Lele Gaifax <lele@metapensiero.it> - 2013-07-13 10:12 +0200
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-13 12:48 -0400
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-13 12:59 -0400
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-07-13 13:35 -0500
            Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 10:36 +1000
            Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-07-12 19:42 -0400
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-07-12 11:19 -0600
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-07-12 18:07 -0400
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-07-12 23:07 +0100
            Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 08:32 +0300
              Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-13 12:54 -0400
                Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-13 13:09 -0400
                Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 20:43 +0300
                  Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-13 14:19 -0400
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 21:23 +0300
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-13 14:30 -0400
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 16:57 -0600
                        Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-16 22:43 +0300
                          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-07-16 15:51 -0400
                          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-16 20:51 -0400
                          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-17 10:58 +1000
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-07-14 13:32 -0500
                  Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-13 14:21 -0400
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 21:28 +0300
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-14 09:12 +1000
                  Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-07-13 13:46 -0500
                  Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-07-13 11:17 -0700
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-15 16:25 +0300
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-15 20:34 -0400
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-15 20:48 -0600
                        Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-07-17 10:07 +1000
              Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-14 03:03 +1000
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-12 16:15 -0600
        Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-07-12 12:24 -0400
      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-14 08:18 +0300
        Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-14 15:24 +1000
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-14 10:51 +0300
    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 02:41 +1000

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#50556

On 12/07/2013 17:32, Νικόλας wrote:
>
> I know i have asked before but hwta i get is ISP city not visitors
> precise city.
>
> GeoLiteCity.dat isnt accurate that's why it comes for free.
> i must somehow get access to GeoIPCity.dat which is the full version.
>
> And of course it can be done, i dont want to believe that it cant.
>
> When visiting http://www.geoiptool.com/en/__ip_info/ it pinpoints my
> _exact_ city of living, not the ISP's.

Have you considered that your ISP might be in the same city as you?

According to geoiptool, my ISP is near Leeds, UK, but the important
point is that _I'm not_.

> It did not even ask me to allow a geop ip javascript to run it present
> sit instantly.
>
> So, it certainly is possible if only one can find the correct database
> to use.
>
> So, my question now is, if there is some way we can get an accurate Geo
> City database.
>

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#50569

Στις 13/7/2013 1:07 πμ, ο/η MRAB έγραψε:
>
> Have you considered that your ISP might be in the same city as you?
>
> According to geoiptool, my ISP is near Leeds, UK, but the important
> point is that _I'm not_.


My ISP is in Athens and i live in Thessaloníki and it returned back 
Thessaloníki not Athens, which it was accurate for me.

I dont know why it was not accurate for the other members here.
And of course if you are using a proxy then the GeoIP tool has no way of 
telling the real location of the visitor but the proxy's location in stead.

Also in another page which it asked me if i allow it to run a javascipt 
Geo app and i replied positively it gave me my exact city and street 
number too!

So many sites can identify accurately the correct city and even street 
some times, so there must be a way.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#50599

On Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:32:24 +0300, ??????? <nikos@superhost.gr> declaimed
the following:

>???? 13/7/2013 1:07 ??, ?/? MRAB ??????:
>>
>> Have you considered that your ISP might be in the same city as you?
>>
>> According to geoiptool, my ISP is near Leeds, UK, but the important
>> point is that _I'm not_.
>
>
>My ISP is in Athens and i live in Thessaloníki and it returned back 
>Thessaloníki not Athens, which it was accurate for me.
>
	Are you paying for a fixed IP number? I suspect you are if you were
running a world-accessible server.

	Obviously a fixed IP will be tied to a fixed connection and thereby to
a fixed location which can be provided to a location database.

	But most of us have DHCP assigned IP numbers, which change everytime we
reboot our connection (or even when the DHCP lease expires -- which may be
daily).

	The IP number I have today may be given to somebody else on the other
side of the state tomorrow (though I suspect AT&T [phone company] keeps a
block of IP numbers per city -- but even my connection, AT&T Grand Rapids,
gets a "domain name" that identifies as Kalamazoo, when it gets to my ISP
Earthlink).

	For DHCP, the only thing you can be sure of is that an IP database can
identify the location of the DHCP server that issues the IP number. In a
heavy population area, that may mean a DHCP server (and block of IP
numbers) may be down to the suburb level. Out in the country, one server
may handle multiple small towns.
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#50602

In article <mailman.4680.1373734493.3114.python-list@python.org>,
 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Obviously a fixed IP will be tied to a fixed connection and thereby to
> a fixed location which can be provided to a location database.

And even then, it can be wrong.  When I worked for EMC, they 
(apparently, from what I could see) back-hauled internet connections for 
all their offices to Hopkinton, MA where they had one central ISP 
connection, via NAT.  So, when I sat at my desk in White Plains, NY and 
went to Moviephone's web site, I was conveniently shown what all the 
theaters in the Hopkinton area were playing that day.  Ditto for the 
weather.

Not to mention that some IP addresses move.  People use mobile devices 
in cars, busses, trains, planes, boats, etc.  Not to mention somewhat 
more esoteric places like the ISS.

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#50604

Στις 13/7/2013 7:54 μμ, ο/η Dennis Lee Bieber έγραψε:
> 	Are you paying for a fixed IP number? I suspect you are if you were
> running a world-accessible server.
>
> 	Obviously a fixed IP will be tied to a fixed connection and thereby to
> a fixed location which can be provided to a location database.
>
> 	But most of us have DHCP assigned IP numbers, which change everytime we
> reboot our connection (or even when the DHCP lease expires -- which may be
> daily).

Same networking scheme for me too, dynamic that is.

Every time the DHCP lease expires or i reboot the router i get a new ip 
address but every time the link i provided states accurately that my ip 
address is from Thessaloníki and not Europe/Athens which is were my ISP 
location is.

Not to mention that in facebook, no matter the way i'am joining, via 
smartphone, tablet, laptop it always pinpoints my exact location.

But yes, i can understand your skepticism.
An ip address can move anywhere while remaining connected to the same 
ISP, just like a networking device in the house, remains connected to 
the same router while changing rooms or even floors, or even buildings.

But then how do you explain the fact that
http://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip_demo
pinpointed Thessaloníki and not Athens and for 2 friends of mine that 
use the same ISP as me but live in different cities also accurately 
identified their locations too?

I

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#50605

In article <krs3jj$vnq$1@news.grnet.gr>,
 ÉΪÉ«É»όλας <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:

> But then how do you explain the fact that 
> http://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip_demo pinpointed Thessalon£ki and not 
> Athens and for 2 friends of mine that use the same ISP as me but live 
> in different cities also accurately identified their locations too?

I just tried 24.136.109.105 on that demo.  It comes up with:

US Englewood Cliffs,
New Jersey,
United States,
North America 
07632 40.8915,
-73.9471
Time Warner Cable
Time Warner Cable
rr.com
501

Not bad.  Google street view shows that as a very pretty residential 
neighborhood in one of New York's fancier suburbs.  Unfortunately, it 
happens to be in run-down industrial building in a factory district 
about 20 km away.

There are lots of interesting (and superior) ways to do geolocation 
other than looking up IP addresses.  Here's a few:

1) GPS.  Obviously, if you're on a device that has a GPS receiver and 
you have access to that data, and you've got a good signal, nothing is 
going to beat GPS.  Well, other than Glonass.  And Galileo and IRNSS, 
whenever they become operational.  And whatever the Chinese are calling 
theirs.

2) Cell (i.e. mobile) phone tower triangulation.  The phone systems know 
where all the towers are and know which towers your phone is receiving 
signal from.  Since they know the signal strengths from each of those 
towers, they can do a rough triangulation.  It's kind of messy since 
signal propagation depends terrain and obstructions which aren't well 
mapped.  But it's better than nothing.

3) WiFi triangulation.  Right now, I can see four WiFi networks (Worb, 
J24, MusicWiFi, and jcglinksys).  There are databases of WiFi network 
names and approximate locations (obtained by wardriving and other ways).  
If you can see enough networks, it's easy to look in the database and 
figure out where you must be.

4) Who knows what the future will bring.  I suppose some day, inertial 
nav will become cheap enough that we'll all be walking around with INS 
in our phones.

In general, mobile operating systems control direct access to all of 
these signals and only allow applications to get the location data when 
the user agrees to such access.

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#50607

Στις 13/7/2013 9:19 μμ, ο/η Roy Smith έγραψε:
> In article <krs3jj$vnq$1@news.grnet.gr>,
>   ÉΪÉ«É»όλας <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>
>> But then how do you explain the fact that
>> http://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip_demo pinpointed Thessalon£ki and not
>> Athens and for 2 friends of mine that use the same ISP as me but live
>> in different cities also accurately identified their locations too?
>
> I just tried 24.136.109.105 on that demo.  It comes up with:
>
> US Englewood Cliffs,
> New Jersey,
> United States,
> North America
> 07632 40.8915,
> -73.9471
> Time Warner Cable
> Time Warner Cable
> rr.com
> 501
>
> Not bad.  Google street view shows that as a very pretty residential
> neighborhood in one of New York's fancier suburbs.  Unfortunately, it
> happens to be in run-down industrial building in a factory district
> about 20 km away.
>
> There are lots of interesting (and superior) ways to do geolocation
> other than looking up IP addresses.  Here's a few:
>
> 1) GPS.  Obviously, if you're on a device that has a GPS receiver and
> you have access to that data, and you've got a good signal, nothing is
> going to beat GPS.  Well, other than Glonass.  And Galileo and IRNSS,
> whenever they become operational.  And whatever the Chinese are calling
> theirs.
>
> 2) Cell (i.e. mobile) phone tower triangulation.  The phone systems know
> where all the towers are and know which towers your phone is receiving
> signal from.  Since they know the signal strengths from each of those
> towers, they can do a rough triangulation.  It's kind of messy since
> signal propagation depends terrain and obstructions which aren't well
> mapped.  But it's better than nothing.
>
> 3) WiFi triangulation.  Right now, I can see four WiFi networks (Worb,
> J24, MusicWiFi, and jcglinksys).  There are databases of WiFi network
> names and approximate locations (obtained by wardriving and other ways).
> If you can see enough networks, it's easy to look in the database and
> figure out where you must be.
>
> 4) Who knows what the future will bring.  I suppose some day, inertial
> nav will become cheap enough that we'll all be walking around with INS
> in our phones.
>
> In general, mobile operating systems control direct access to all of
> these signals and only allow applications to get the location data when
> the user agrees to such access.
>
Do you know a way of implementing anyone of these methods to a script?

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#50609

In article <krs5uc$6ht$1@news.grnet.gr>,
 ÉΪÉ«É»όλας <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:

> > There are lots of interesting (and superior) ways to do geolocation
> > other than looking up IP addresses.  Here's a few:
> . [...]
> > In general, mobile operating systems control direct access to all of
> > these signals and only allow applications to get the location data when
> > the user agrees to such access.
> >
> Do you know a way of implementing anyone of these methods to a script?

Unfortunately, no.  I don't do front-end development.  I am aware of the 
technologies, but do not know the details of how you access them on any 
particular device.  I would start with the API docs for the device you 
are interested in and look for "location services".

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#50616

On 07/13/2013 12:23 PM, Νικόλας wrote:
> Do you know a way of implementing anyone of these methods to a script?

Yes.  Modern browsers all support a location API in the browser for
javascript.  See this:

http://diveintohtml5.info/geolocation.html

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#50755

Στις 14/7/2013 1:57 πμ, ο/η Michael Torrie έγραψε:
> On 07/13/2013 12:23 PM, Νικόλας wrote:
>> Do you know a way of implementing anyone of these methods to a script?
>
> Yes.  Modern browsers all support a location API in the browser for
> javascript.  See this:
>
> http://diveintohtml5.info/geolocation.html
>

Lest say i embed inside my index.html the Javascript Geo Code.

Is there a way to pass Javascript's outcome to my Python cgi script somehow?

Can Javascript and Python Cgi somehow exchnage data?
-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#50756

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:

> Στις 14/7/2013 1:57 πμ, ο/η Michael Torrie έγραψε:
>
>> On 07/13/2013 12:23 PM, Νικόλας wrote:
>>
>>> Do you know a way of implementing anyone of these methods to a script?
>>>
>>
>> Yes.  Modern browsers all support a location API in the browser for
>> javascript.  See this:
>>
>> http://diveintohtml5.info/**geolocation.html<http://diveintohtml5.info/geolocation.html>
>>
>>
> Lest say i embed inside my index.html the Javascript Geo Code.
>
> Is there a way to pass Javascript's outcome to my Python cgi script
> somehow?
>
> Can Javascript and Python Cgi somehow exchnage data?
>
> --
> What is now proved was at first only imagined!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>

Learn about ajax


-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com

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#50763

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 22:43:35 +0300, ??????? <nikos@superhost.gr> declaimed
the following:

>
>Lest say i embed inside my index.html the Javascript Geo Code.
>
>Is there a way to pass Javascript's outcome to my Python cgi script somehow?
>
>Can Javascript and Python Cgi somehow exchnage data?

	Using plain CGI is going to be painful -- since /everything/ is handled
a whole new page request. You would have to handle session cookies, etc.

	Your "index.html" would attempt to run the JavaScript (note that some
users may have JavaScript turned off -- how will you handle that), if it
gets information it would have to do a "GET index2.html?lat=xxx?long=yyy"
or something similar, which will result in a new page load on the user --
hopefully with a cookie set so you know NOT to run the geolocation code on
subsequent pages.

	AJAX is a process to allow JavaScript on the browser to interact with a
server (using XML data structures), and likely use DOM operations in the
browser (and the last time I did something on this nature, I had to have
different code for Internet Explorer vs Firefox, and don't know of
Chrome/Opera share one of the others calls) to make changes on the web page
without doing a full submit/render operation

-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#50767

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 22:43:35 +0300, ??????? <nikos@superhost.gr> declaimed
> the following:
>
>>
>>Lest say i embed inside my index.html the Javascript Geo Code.
>>
>>Is there a way to pass Javascript's outcome to my Python cgi script somehow?
>>
>>Can Javascript and Python Cgi somehow exchnage data?
>
>         Using plain CGI is going to be painful -- since /everything/ is handled
> a whole new page request. You would have to handle session cookies, etc.
>
>         Your "index.html" would attempt to run the JavaScript (note that some
> users may have JavaScript turned off -- how will you handle that), if it
> gets information it would have to do a "GET index2.html?lat=xxx?long=yyy"
> or something similar, which will result in a new page load on the user --
> hopefully with a cookie set so you know NOT to run the geolocation code on
> subsequent pages.
>
>         AJAX is a process to allow JavaScript on the browser to interact with a
> server (using XML data structures), and likely use DOM operations in the
> browser (and the last time I did something on this nature, I had to have
> different code for Internet Explorer vs Firefox, and don't know of
> Chrome/Opera share one of the others calls) to make changes on the web page
> without doing a full submit/render operation

AJAX changes the client end, but not the server (well, you might
change the server's output format to make it easier, but it's not
essential). So you *can* still use the CGI that you're familiar with.

For reference, Firefox/Chrome/Opera/Safari are all pretty much
identical for this sort of work; and the recent IEs (9, I think, and
10) are following them too. There are trivial differences, but for the
basics, it's possible to support IE8+, Chrome, Firefox back as far as
the Iceweasel from Debian Squeeze (I think that's Ff 3.5), and so on,
all from the same code. No per-browser checks required.

ChrisA

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#50650

On 2013-07-13 16:57, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 07/13/2013 12:23 PM, Νικόλας wrote:
> > Do you know a way of implementing anyone of these methods to a
> > script?
> 
> Yes.  Modern browsers all support a location API in the browser for
> javascript. 

And the good browsers give the user the option to disclose this
information or not (and, as I mentioned elsewhere on this thread,
even lie about where you are such as with the Geolocater plugin[1] for
FF).

Some of us value the modicum of privacy that we receive by not being
locatable by IP address.

-tkc

[1]
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/geolocater/

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#50606

On Sat, 13 Jul 2013 20:43:14 +0300, ??????? <nikos@superhost.gr> declaimed
the following:

>But then how do you explain the fact that
>http://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip_demo
>pinpointed Thessaloníki and not Athens and for 2 friends of mine that 
>use the same ISP as me but live in different cities also accurately 
>identified their locations too?
>
	You have encountered an ISP that reserves IP blocks for specific
suburbs/cities -- and can be tracked thereby. That is, all IPs in
xxx.yyy.zzz.??? may be held for just one neighborhood (granted, I've
defined an old class C network there, but modern network assignments are no
longer in A/B/C (8/16/24 bit network address, with 24/16/8 bit node
addresses) assignments.

	It all comes down to how the ISP allocates addresses. It may be that
(as in my case) the ISP is irrelevant -- the IP is issued by the phone
company that actually provides the DSL, and a block of IPs is allocated to
each "central office" of that phone company... And thereby, regardless of
the lease renewal, the IP is still identified as belonging to that central
office location (or whatever location the phone company supplies to the
location service for the IP block).
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#50608

Στις 13/7/2013 9:21 μμ, ο/η Dennis Lee Bieber έγραψε:
> On Sat, 13 Jul 2013 20:43:14 +0300, ??????? <nikos@superhost.gr> declaimed
> the following:
>
>> But then how do you explain the fact that
>> http://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip_demo
>> pinpointed Thessalon�ki and not Athens and for 2 friends of mine that
>> use the same ISP as me but live in different cities also accurately
>> identified their locations too?
>>
> 	You have encountered an ISP that reserves IP blocks for specific
> suburbs/cities -- and can be tracked thereby. That is, all IPs in
> xxx.yyy.zzz.??? may be held for just one neighborhood (granted, I've
> defined an old class C network there, but modern network assignments are no
> longer in A/B/C (8/16/24 bit network address, with 24/16/8 bit node
> addresses) assignments.
>
> 	It all comes down to how the ISP allocates addresses. It may be that
> (as in my case) the ISP is irrelevant -- the IP is issued by the phone
> company that actually provides the DSL, and a block of IPs is allocated to
> each "central office" of that phone company... And thereby, regardless of
> the lease renewal, the IP is still identified as belonging to that central
> office location (or whatever location the phone company supplies to the
> location service for the IP block).
>

You are right and i can back this up.

While FORTHnet ISP(my ISP) works well with maxmind which can pinpoint 
the visitor's exact location other ISPs like Cyta, OTEnet, HOL always 
says Europe/Athens.

So it seems that all boil down to the way the ISP configure its blocks 
of ip addresses per city.

All should do the same and then it would be an easy task to accurately 
identify a visitor by its ip address.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#50617

On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> So it seems that all boil down to the way the ISP configure its blocks of ip
> addresses per city.
>
> All should do the same and then it would be an easy task to accurately
> identify a visitor by its ip address.

So every ISP in the world needs to warp its business to your
convenience. Are you at all thinking about what you're asking for,
here?

ChrisA

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#50682

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, 13 Jul 2013, Νικόλας wrote:

> But then how do you explain the fact that
> http://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip_demo
> pinpointed Thessaloníki and not Athens and for 2 friends of mine that 
> use the same ISP as me but live in different cities also accurately 
> identified their locations too?

If you bothered doing something as simple as read the Wikipedia article on
Geolocation, you could answer this question yourself: Evidently you, and your 
friends have things like cookies, or some other helps that identify your
location, which is why your addresses are close.

-W

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#50684

On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> Στις 13/7/2013 7:54 μμ, ο/η Dennis Lee Bieber έγραψε:
>>
>>         Are you paying for a fixed IP number? I suspect you are if you
>> were
>> running a world-accessible server.
>>
>>         Obviously a fixed IP will be tied to a fixed connection and
>> thereby to
>> a fixed location which can be provided to a location database.
>>
>>         But most of us have DHCP assigned IP numbers, which change
>> everytime we
>> reboot our connection (or even when the DHCP lease expires -- which may be
>> daily).
>
>
> Same networking scheme for me too, dynamic that is.
>
> Every time the DHCP lease expires or i reboot the router i get a new ip
> address but every time the link i provided states accurately that my ip
> address is from Thessaloníki and not Europe/Athens which is were my ISP
> location is.
>
> Not to mention that in facebook, no matter the way i'am joining, via
> smartphone, tablet, laptop it always pinpoints my exact location.
>
> But yes, i can understand your skepticism.
> An ip address can move anywhere while remaining connected to the same ISP,
> just like a networking device in the house, remains connected to the same
> router while changing rooms or even floors, or even buildings.
>
> But then how do you explain the fact that
> http://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip_demo
> pinpointed Thessaloníki and not Athens and for 2 friends of mine that use
> the same ISP as me but live in different cities also accurately identified
> their locations too?
>

It's not telling you where your ISP is headquartered. It's telling you
where the servers that you're connecting to are. In your case, you're
connecting to servers that your Athens-based ISP has in a Thessaloniki
datacenter. The only way to get an accurate location is to use
something other than IP- phones like to use a combination of their
GPS, a map of the cell phone towers, and a map of wi-fi hotspots (this
is one of the things that Google's StreetView cars log as they drive).

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#50688

Στις 13/7/2013 9:17 μμ, ο/η Benjamin Kaplan έγραψε:
> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>> Στις 13/7/2013 7:54 μμ, ο/η Dennis Lee Bieber έγραψε:
>>>
>>>          Are you paying for a fixed IP number? I suspect you are if you
>>> were
>>> running a world-accessible server.
>>>
>>>          Obviously a fixed IP will be tied to a fixed connection and
>>> thereby to
>>> a fixed location which can be provided to a location database.
>>>
>>>          But most of us have DHCP assigned IP numbers, which change
>>> everytime we
>>> reboot our connection (or even when the DHCP lease expires -- which may be
>>> daily).
>>
>>
>> Same networking scheme for me too, dynamic that is.
>>
>> Every time the DHCP lease expires or i reboot the router i get a new ip
>> address but every time the link i provided states accurately that my ip
>> address is from Thessaloníki and not Europe/Athens which is were my ISP
>> location is.
>>
>> Not to mention that in facebook, no matter the way i'am joining, via
>> smartphone, tablet, laptop it always pinpoints my exact location.
>>
>> But yes, i can understand your skepticism.
>> An ip address can move anywhere while remaining connected to the same ISP,
>> just like a networking device in the house, remains connected to the same
>> router while changing rooms or even floors, or even buildings.
>>
>> But then how do you explain the fact that
>> http://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip_demo
>> pinpointed Thessaloníki and not Athens and for 2 friends of mine that use
>> the same ISP as me but live in different cities also accurately identified
>> their locations too?
>>
>
> It's not telling you where your ISP is headquartered. It's telling you
> where the servers that you're connecting to are. In your case, you're
> connecting to servers that your Athens-based ISP has in a Thessaloniki
> datacenter. The only way to get an accurate location is to use
> something other than IP- phones like to use a combination of their
> GPS, a map of the cell phone towers, and a map of wi-fi hotspots (this
> is one of the things that Google's StreetView cars log as they drive).

Actually that happens only for my ISP(FORTHnet).
For other ISPs all locations boil down just to Europe/Athens.
This happens to be because my ISP's network scheme is to assign blcoks 
of ip addresses per city in Greek area.

Same thing doesn't apply for others ISPs unfortunately here in Greece.

I have no idea how to implement the solution you proposed.
These are nice ideas we need to have a way of implement them within a 
script.

I have no way of grasping a map of cell towers of a  map of wi-fi hotspots.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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