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Re: Language design

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  Re: Language design TheDoctor <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 17:10 -0700
    Re: Language design Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-02 17:19 +1000
      Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 17:36 +1000
      Re: Language design "Dr. Bigcock" <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 11:09 -0700

#91734 — Re: Language design

On Friday, September 13, 2013 at 12:08:04 AM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:23:21 -0700, Mark Janssen wrote:
> which would be silly. Only somebody who doesn't understand how 
> inheritance works in Python would do that. There's simply no need for it, 
> and in fact it would be actively harmful for larger hierarchies.
> 
> >>> But wait is it the "base" (at the bottom of the hierarchy) or is it
> >>> the "parent" at the top?  You see, you, like everyone else has been
> >>> using these terms loosely, confusing yourself.
> >>
> >> Depends on whether I'm standing on my head or not.
> >>
> >> Or more importantly, it depends on whether I visualise my hierarchy
> >> going top->down or bottom->up. Both are relevant, and both end up with
> >> the *exact same hierarchy* with only the direction reversed.
> > 
> > Ha,  "only the direction reversed".  That little directionality that
> > you're passing by so blithely is the difference between whether you're
> > talking about galaxies or atoms.
> 
> It makes no difference whether I write:
> 
>     atoms -> stars -> galaxies
> 
> or
> 
>     galaxies <- stars <- atoms
> 
> nor does it make any difference if I write the chain starting at the top 
> and pointing down, or at the bottom and pointing up.

Yes it does.  Ford IS-A Car, but Car IS-A Ford?  No.  Try reordering that one.

I see we've missed each other with our limitations to ASCII text, in ways that would have never happened had these conversations occurred in person.  Re-reading my texts, I see that I can easily confuse myself.

> "not someone wanting to understand the limitations of python..." -- are 
> you aware that I started this thread?

Yes, but did you?  LOL.

Mark

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#91805

On Tuesday 02 June 2015 10:10, TheDoctor wrote:

> On Friday, September 13, 2013 at 12:08:04 AM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

Mark, you are digging up a conversation from nearly two years ago. 
Seriously?


>> It makes no difference whether I write:
>> 
>>     atoms -> stars -> galaxies
>> 
>> or
>> 
>>     galaxies <- stars <- atoms
>> 
>> nor does it make any difference if I write the chain starting at the top
>> and pointing down, or at the bottom and pointing up.
> 
> Yes it does.  Ford IS-A Car, but Car IS-A Ford?  No.  Try reordering that
> one.

Try again. Look at the direction of the arrows. Nobody denies that there is 
a difference between:

    atoms -> stars -> galaxies

    galaxies -> stars -> atoms

but that's not what my second example says. Look closely, and consider that 
sometimes we write "Mark's hat" and sometimes "the hat of Mark".


> I see we've missed each other with our limitations to ASCII text, in ways
> that would have never happened had these conversations occurred in person.
>  Re-reading my texts, I see that I can easily confuse myself.

Yes, I see that.


-- 
Steve

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#91808

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> but that's not what my second example says. Look closely, and consider that
> sometimes we write "Mark's hat" and sometimes "the hat of Mark".

... and sometimes "the hat Mark's talking through", which appears to
put "hat" and "Mark's" the other way around, but is no less true.

ChrisA

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#91875

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 2:19:23 AM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tuesday 02 June 2015 10:10, TheDoctor wrote:
> 
> > On Friday, September 13, 2013 at 12:08:04 AM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> Mark, you are digging up a conversation from nearly two years ago. 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> >> It makes no difference whether I write:
> >> 
> >>     atoms -> stars -> galaxies
> >> 
> >> or
> >> 
> >>     galaxies <- stars <- atoms
> >> 
> >> nor does it make any difference if I write the chain starting at the top
> >> and pointing down, or at the bottom and pointing up.
> > 
> > Yes it does.  Ford IS-A Car, but Car IS-A Ford?  No.  Try reordering that
> > one.
> 
> Try again. Look at the direction of the arrows. Nobody denies that there is 
> a difference between:
> 
>     atoms -> stars -> galaxies
> 
>     galaxies -> stars -> atoms
> 
> but that's not what my second example says. Look closely, and consider that 
> sometimes we write "Mark's hat" and sometimes "the hat of Mark".

No, that's not the same.  Class Mark(hat) is not the same as class Hat(Mark).

Boom.  Suck it.

Mark
 
> 
> > I see we've missed each other with our limitations to ASCII text, in ways
> > that would have never happened had these conversations occurred in person.
> >  Re-reading my texts, I see that I can easily confuse myself.
> 
> Yes, I see that.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve

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