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GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ?

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  GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-12 17:18 +0300
    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-07-12 11:32 -0400
      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-12 18:52 +0300
        Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-12 19:32 +0300
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-12 16:38 +0000
            Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 02:47 +1000
            Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-12 19:04 -0400
              Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 08:48 +0300
                Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 15:53 +1000
                  Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 09:07 +0300
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 16:22 +1000
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 09:28 +0300
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Lele Gaifax <lele@metapensiero.it> - 2013-07-13 10:12 +0200
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-13 12:48 -0400
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-13 12:59 -0400
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-07-13 13:35 -0500
            Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 10:36 +1000
            Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-07-12 19:42 -0400
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-07-12 11:19 -0600
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-07-12 18:07 -0400
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-07-12 23:07 +0100
            Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 08:32 +0300
              Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-13 12:54 -0400
                Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-13 13:09 -0400
                Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 20:43 +0300
                  Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-13 14:19 -0400
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 21:23 +0300
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-13 14:30 -0400
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 16:57 -0600
                        Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-16 22:43 +0300
                          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-07-16 15:51 -0400
                          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-16 20:51 -0400
                          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-17 10:58 +1000
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-07-14 13:32 -0500
                  Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-13 14:21 -0400
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-13 21:28 +0300
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-14 09:12 +1000
                  Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-07-13 13:46 -0500
                  Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-07-13 11:17 -0700
                    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-15 16:25 +0300
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-15 20:34 -0400
                      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-15 20:48 -0600
                        Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-07-17 10:07 +1000
              Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-14 03:03 +1000
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-12 16:15 -0600
        Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-07-12 12:24 -0400
      Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-14 08:18 +0300
        Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-14 15:24 +1000
          Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-14 10:51 +0300
    Re: GeoIP2 for retrieving city and region ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-13 02:41 +1000

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#50721

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:25:09 +0300, ??????? <nikos@superhost.gr> declaimed
the following:

>???? 13/7/2013 9:17 ??, ?/? Benjamin Kaplan ??????:
	<snip>
>>
>> It's not telling you where your ISP is headquartered. It's telling you
>> where the servers that you're connecting to are. In your case, you're
>> connecting to servers that your Athens-based ISP has in a Thessaloniki
>> datacenter. The only way to get an accurate location is to use
>> something other than IP- phones like to use a combination of their
>> GPS, a map of the cell phone towers, and a map of wi-fi hotspots (this
>> is one of the things that Google's StreetView cars log as they drive).
>
	<snip>
>
>I have no idea how to implement the solution you proposed.
>These are nice ideas we need to have a way of implement them within a 
>script.
>
>I have no way of grasping a map of cell towers of a  map of wi-fi hotspots.
>
	You don't... The phone company knows where their towers are, THEY do
the triangulation based on signal strength from cell phones on their
network, and they provide that position to the phone. The phone can then
use that data to respond to applications running ON the phone that request
location information using the phone's OS API (which is different for an
Android phone vs Blackberry vs Apple).

	WiFi hotspots would require an application running on the mobile device
accessing some database of hotspots; so the application can do the
triangulation based upon the signal strength it is receiving from the
hotspots (this is the opposite of how the phone location is done: phone
company uses signal strength to assign the control tower, so they can do
the triangulation at their end; WiFi would be triangulated on the mobile as
it is doing the decision of which hotspot to connect through).

	In either case, it still comes down to relying on the client machine
for location services. A desktop machine with a wired connection is not
going to be running location services. A mobile device using WiFi is also
likely to NOT be running a location service -- but has the possibility of
having an application loaded and run which does access a WiFi database to
do triangulation (but this application probably has to run in Administrator
mode as it would need to access the WiFi adapter to scan for hotspots and
signal strengths).
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#50724

On 07/15/2013 06:34 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> I have no idea how to implement the solution you proposed.
>> These are nice ideas we need to have a way of implement them within a 
>> script.
>>
>> I have no way of grasping a map of cell towers of a  map of wi-fi hotspots.
>>
> 	You don't... The phone company knows where their towers are, THEY do
> the triangulation based on signal strength from cell phones on their
> network, and they provide that position to the phone. The phone can then
> use that data to respond to applications running ON the phone that request
> location information using the phone's OS API (which is different for an
> Android phone vs Blackberry vs Apple).

I've posted a link to detailed information on this no less than three
times, yet Nikos has not read any of it, sadly.

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#50761

On 16/07/2013 12:48 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> I've posted a link to detailed information on this no less than three
> times, yet Nikos has not read any of it, sadly.

Just a quick reminder for everyone:

"Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new 
ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his 
position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are 
decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his 
defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again 
and again with only the slightest variation in tactics."

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_62.php

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#50601

On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>         Are you paying for a fixed IP number? I suspect you are if you were
> running a world-accessible server.
>
>         Obviously a fixed IP will be tied to a fixed connection and thereby to
> a fixed location which can be provided to a location database.

And even that is no guarantee. I have two connections, one static IP,
the other dynamic. The static one fails geolocation by a greater
distance than the other. No, there's no way to be sure.

ChrisA

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#50683

On 07/12/2013 10:32 AM, Νικόλας wrote:
> So, my question now is, if there is some way we can get an accurate Geo 
> City database.

As has been said pretty much by every other poster, there is no way to
do get an accurate location database.  Period.

The databases that do exist were built by hand, and also guessed at
based on routing information.  The best you can really do is region, or
country, and even that fails sometimes.

If you want to know a visitor's city you should ask them using the new
browser location apis available to javascript.

http://diveintohtml5.info/geolocation.html

Since IPs can be dynamic, sometimes even assigned across a region,
there's no way to accurately map ip addresses to a city with the
reliability that you seem to want.  Google is pretty accurate because
they've spent a lot of time building up their own database, and also
convincing users to reveal their locations to them.  Unless you do the
same thing, you have to just get by with what others have provided for you.

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#50551

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On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:

> Στις 12/7/2013 6:32 μμ, ο/η Dave Angel έγραψε:
>
>
>> I suggest you read that geoiptool site, in particular the page
>>
>> http://www.geoiptool.com/en/**ip_info/<http://www.geoiptool.com/en/ip_info/>
>>
>> There is some misinformation, but notice carefully the part about
>> dynamic IP addresses.  Probably 99% of the individual users on the web
>> (the ones using a browser) have dynamic IP addresses.  The fixed ones
>> are needed by servers, and especially for DNS use, where the name lookup
>> wants to be stable for relatively log periods of time.
>>
>
>
> I did, for me it gives exact city location and not the ISP's city location.
>
> I dont know whay for you ti just says Kansas, it shoudln't, since it
> susing longitute and latitude, it should have been accurate.
>
>
> Nikos, this is the point where you (again) loose credibility on this
list.  You asked this question about how to find the location where someone
is browsing your site from.  You got several answers.  The bottom line is
that you can't know that location unless the browsing machine does its own
geo location (think cell phones) or the user has provided his location via
some form.

So, now, a week or two later you come back with the same question, as if it
hasn't already been answered -- but you give it a 'red herring' kind of
twist.  As I understand it, you found a new module that you think will do
something that all parties answering this question before explained that
this is not possible.  And you switch up to say "why can't I load this
thing?".  Well, I don't why you can't load it, but I don't want to help
because it doesn't help you solve your stated problem.  Your stated problem
is done.  move on.




> --
> What is now proved was at first only imagined!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>



-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com

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#50626

Can we get the location serived from lat/long coordinates?

Using a mapping service you can create a query that asks "what is the 
smallest region that contains points [(x1, y1), (x2, y2),...]" and use 
that as our geolocate answer?

That should work, can you show me how such thing can be done please?
-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#50627

On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Νικόλας <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> Can we get the location serived from lat/long coordinates?

Yes, assuming you get accurate latitude and longitude, so you're back
to square 1.

ChrisA

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#50631

Στις 14/7/2013 8:24 πμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 3:18 PM, ������� <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>> Can we get the location serived from lat/long coordinates?
>
> Yes, assuming you get accurate latitude and longitude, so you're back
> to square 1.
>
> ChrisA
>


Dear Freelance,

Thank you for your interest in MaxMind Web Services. We have set up a 
demo account which includes the following web service(s):

GeoIP City Demo (1000 lookups available)
Usage:
http://geoip.maxmind.com/b?l=YOUR_LICENSE_KEY&i=24.24.24.24
Example scripts may be found at: http://dev.maxmind.com/geoip/web-services

GeoIP City with ISP and Organization Demo (1000 lookups available)
Usage:
http://geoip.maxmind.com/f?l=YOUR_LICENSE_KEY&i=24.24.24.24
Example scripts may be found at: http://dev.maxmind.com/geoip/web-services

Lets see if that would be of any help.
Please try it too you can request a demo trial of maxminds Geo web services.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#50543

On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> wrote:
>>
>> There is definately i way to identify the users location based solely on
>> its ip address as this site does it: http://www.geoiptool.com/
>>
>
> Sure, and as long as you don't mind it being 1000 miles off, you too can
> claim to do it too.  When I go to that site, the little pin is in Kansas,
> which is 1100 miles from where I live on the east coast of the US.

I have two IPs at this house, not counting the ones I could get off
mobile connections (which are valid probably anywhere in the state,
maybe further afield). One of them is plotted fairly accurately (not
more than a couple of kilometers wrong), but the other is listed at
Elizabeth and Bourke in the CBD... which is half an hour's train
journey away from me. And the one that was wrong was the one that's
actually an official static IP address (as opposed to a "technically
dynamic but hasn't changed for a couple of years" address).

Obligatory XKCD link: http://xkcd.com/713/

ChrisA

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