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better and user friendly IDE recommended?

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  better and user friendly IDE recommended? mnish1984@gmail.com - 2013-09-11 07:14 -0700
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org> - 2013-09-11 15:51 -0400
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-09-12 09:44 +1000
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-09-12 08:09 +0100
      Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2013-09-12 16:47 +0100
        Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Veritatem Ignotam <veritatem.ignotam@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 12:00 -0400
        Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Joe Junior <joe.fbs.junior@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 14:04 -0300
        Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-09-16 05:42 +0100
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-09-12 18:04 +1000
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-09-12 11:02 +0100
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Paul Pittlerson <menkomigen6@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 03:55 -0700
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Fabio Zadrozny <fabiofz@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 09:12 -0300
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-09-12 09:22 -0500
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Westley Martínez <anikom15@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 10:23 -0700
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? Adrián Espinosa <mortuuslordofdeads@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 14:15 -0700
      Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? memilanuk <memilanuk@gmail.com> - 2013-09-14 14:22 -0700
        Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2013-09-16 02:48 +0000
    Re: better and user friendly IDE recommended? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 06:56 -0700

#53965 — better and user friendly IDE recommended?

Hey i am a programmer but new to python. Can anyone guide me in knowing which is a better IDE used to develop web related apps that connect to DB using python?

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#53989

On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 07:14 -0700, mnish1984@gmail.com wrote:
> Hey i am a programmer but new to python. Can anyone guide me in knowing which is a better IDE used to develop web related apps that connect to DB using python?

geany; it's awesome.

<http://www.geany.org/>

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam@whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA

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#54010

mnish1984@gmail.com writes:

> Hey i am a programmer but new to python.

Welcome! Congratulations on finding Python.

> Can anyone guide me in knowing which is a better IDE used to develop
> web related apps that connect to DB using python?

The question of IDEs is a common one, and is a matter of aesthetics as
much as functionality.

Many of use use general-purpose development environments, which will
repay learning in much broader range of tasks than only Python
programming.

Here is a Wiki page on the topic, with discussions and reviews
<URL:https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments>.

My main advice: Avoid non-free (that is, proprietary) software for your
development tools. Learning a set of development tools is a significant
investment, and you should not tie that investment to a single vendor;
if they lose interest for whatever reason, your investment is stranded.

Free software is essential to ensure your tools can continue beyond the
copyright holders of today.

-- 
 \       “Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual |
  `\       profit without individual responsibility.” —Ambrose Bierce, |
_o__)                                   _The Devil's Dictionary_, 1906 |
Ben Finney

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#54040

On 12 September 2013 00:44, Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> mnish1984@gmail.com writes:
>
> My main advice: Avoid non-free (that is, proprietary) software for your
> development tools. Learning a set of development tools is a significant
> investment, and you should not tie that investment to a single vendor;
> if they lose interest for whatever reason, your investment is stranded.

If the time learning a set of tools is enough to make the choice
between tools, I suggest avoiding, say, Vim.

I find that going for whatever makes you most productive is more
important than trying to minimise the learning time. Most software is
much easier to learn that Vim, if you have to replace it after 10
years or not.

YMMV.

---

OP, I suggest Sublime Text as an editor 'cause that's my editor so it
must be the best choice. It's no IDE, though, if it really matters to
you.

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#54058

Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> writes:

> If the time learning a set of tools is enough to make the choice
> between tools, I suggest avoiding, say, Vim.

That's a big if. 

If you expect to spend a lot of time editing text, code, etc. over the
next few years then it's definitely learning at least one of vim or
emacs to a reasonable degree of competency.

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#54062

Is this thread going to evolve into your classic vim vs. emacs, sweet!

Also, Paul is completely right.

V.I.

On 09/12/2013 11:47 AM, Paul Rudin wrote:
> Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> writes:
>
>> If the time learning a set of tools is enough to make the choice
>> between tools, I suggest avoiding, say, Vim.
> That's a big if.
>
> If you expect to spend a lot of time editing text, code, etc. over the
> next few years then it's definitely learning at least one of vim or
> emacs to a reasonable degree of competency.

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#54066

On 12 September 2013 13:00, Veritatem Ignotam
<veritatem.ignotam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is this thread going to evolve into your classic vim vs. emacs, sweet!

Who doesn't love those? ;-)

On 09/12/2013 11:47 AM, Paul Rudin wrote:
>
> Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> writes:
>
>> If the time learning a set of tools is enough to make the choice
>> between tools, I suggest avoiding, say, Vim.
>
> That's a big if.
>
> If you expect to spend a lot of time editing text, code, etc. over the
> next few years then it's definitely learning at least one of vim or
> emacs to a reasonable degree of competency.

I kinda disagree. Though I use and love emacs as my main editor,
simple things you take for granted in modern editors are simply not
there, and you end up spending some precious time finding out how to
have it (like a right-margin marker). Of course that's not a real
issue, since in the end you'll have everything and much more after
configuring and saving your .emacs in the cloud so everything is
always to your liking.

But then comes another problem: we don't live in a bubble. If you'll
ever have to use another programmer's box, you're screwed (That's why
I avoid getting used to non-standard packages).

Not to mention the mental switch. Not everything I need to use has
emacs-binding (I guess the same is true for vim-binding) and, most of
the time, the binding sucks anyway.

But the point I really disagree is that typing/editing speed impacts
so much programmer's productivity. In my experience I spend a lot more
time as a programmer (big emphasis on "lot") reading, thinking and
designing then writing code. So I find a good navigation tool more
important.

My solution/suggestion for python: emacs (in cua-mode for me) with Jedi.

Joe

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#54200

On 12 September 2013 16:47, Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> wrote:
> Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> writes:
>
>> If the time learning a set of tools is enough to make the choice
>> between tools, I suggest avoiding, say, Vim.
>
> That's a big if.
>
> If you expect to spend a lot of time editing text, code, etc. over the
> next few years then it's definitely learning at least one of vim or
> emacs to a reasonable degree of competency.

You misunderstood my argument.

I was trying to say that because people are willing to put the time in
to learn Vim and Emacs, there's already a precedent that the time
spent *isn't* enough to make the choice between tools, and thus the
argument I was responding to was wrong.

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#54041

Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> writes:

> On 12 September 2013 00:44, Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> > mnish1984@gmail.com writes:
> >
> > My main advice: Avoid non-free (that is, proprietary) software for your
> > development tools. Learning a set of development tools is a significant
> > investment, and you should not tie that investment to a single vendor;
> > if they lose interest for whatever reason, your investment is stranded.
>
> If the time learning a set of tools is enough to make the choice
> between tools, I suggest avoiding, say, Vim.

Rather, the effort (not merely time) spent learning a set of tools is
enough to advise choosing tools that will be around and supported by the
community for a long time, and have a wide applicability.

Any software that is non-free cannot be improved by its community, only
by the vendor. That makes it a poor choice for a tool that takes effort
to learn (such as an IDE); it can be abandoned by one party, and then
no-one can improve it further. Free software does not have that problem.

Development tools need to repay their user's investment by being
usefully applicable to a wide variety of tasks. The set of tasks a
programmer needs to perform is broad, and cannot be anticipated early
on; the tools need to be flexible and adaptable by the community of
users to tasks that the tool vendor never thought of.

So Vim and Emacs are both good investments by that standard.

> I find that going for whatever makes you most productive is more
> important than trying to minimise the learning time.

Agreed, and productivity is greatly improved if the tool one has already
learned to use can be used for a broad range of tasks for many years.

> Most software is much easier to learn that Vim, if you have to replace
> it after 10 years or not.

Having to learn many incompatible tools for what is effectively the same
task – whether that task is editing text, running the test suite,
interacting with VCS, invoking a debugger, and so on through many other
IDE tasks – is a poor investment.

Better to learn these once, in a single powerful tool that can be
maintained independent of any one vendor for as long as its community is
interested.

-- 
 \           “Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to |
  `\                                               think.” —Niels Bohr |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#54046

On 12 September 2013 09:04, Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> writes:
>
>> On 12 September 2013 00:44, Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> > mnish1984@gmail.com writes:
>> >
>> > My main advice: Avoid non-free (that is, proprietary) software for your
>> > development tools. Learning a set of development tools is a significant
>> > investment, and you should not tie that investment to a single vendor;
>> > if they lose interest for whatever reason, your investment is stranded.
>>
>> If the time learning a set of tools is enough to make the choice
>> between tools, I suggest avoiding, say, Vim.
>
> Rather, the effort (not merely time) spent learning a set of tools is
> enough to advise choosing tools that will be around and supported by the
> community for a long time, and have a wide applicability.

The sum time it takes to make Vim a good editor and subsequently learn
it is comparable to doing the same for a good number of other editors.
Vim's quite hard to learn, see?

If you accept that point, you should accept that if Vim is worth the
investment then, ignoring issues of other editors being of different
quality¹, the potential of support for your editor being dropped
involves no greater opportunity cost than learning Vim.

As Vim is obviously an editor many consider worth learning, we can
conclude than if you prefer certain non-free alternatives you are not
putting undue effort on yourself.

Of course, there are a lot of other good reasons for OSS to be
favoured and there are a lot of reasons to like other things, too.

¹ Whatever that means

---

I conclude that I am right and everyone else is wrong, because if it
were not the case I would be wrong and I've already asserted that I am
not.

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#54049

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 5:14:04 PM UTC+3, mnishpsyched wrote:
> Hey i am a programmer but new to python. Can anyone guide me in knowing which is a better IDE used to develop web related apps that connect to DB using python?

If you are a programmer in the sense that you are a proficient in something like
C or Java, then whatever development environment you used for that type of coding
will surely work just as well for writing python scripts.

But to answer your question: If you want something modern and fresh, maybe give 
Sublime Text a try. Personally, my favorite is Geany, because it has all the 
functionality and customization I want from an editor, but is not very bloated.

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#54052

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

You'll probably get way too many answers (everyone has its own personal
favorite).

I suggest you check:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/81584/what-ide-to-use-for-python and
https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments, grab the
ones you think are worth it, experiment with them a bit and use what works
best for you.

Cheers,

Fabio



On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 11:14 AM, <mnish1984@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey i am a programmer but new to python. Can anyone guide me in knowing
> which is a better IDE used to develop web related apps that connect to DB
> using python?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

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#54055

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013, Ben Finney wrote:
> Better to learn these once, in a single powerful tool that can be
> maintained independent of any one vendor for as long as its community is
> interested.

And if you're a developer, even a community of one is enough ;)

-W

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#54069

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:14:04 AM UTC-7, mnishpsyched wrote:
> Hey i am a programmer but new to python. Can anyone guide me in knowing which is a better IDE used to develop web related apps that connect to DB using python?

I use vim and idle.

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#54084

El miércoles, 11 de septiembre de 2013 16:14:04 UTC+2, mnishpsyched  escribió:
> Hey i am a programmer but new to python. Can anyone guide me in knowing which is a better IDE used to develop web related apps that connect to DB using python?


Hi and welcome.

I suggest you to use IntelliJ IDEA. It has a plugin for Python and Django (web framework). It works flawlessly.

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#54178

On 09/12/2013 02:15 PM, Adrián Espinosa wrote:

> I suggest you to use IntelliJ IDEA. It has a plugin for Python and Django (web framework). It works flawlessly.
>

If one were inclined to go that route, wouldn't PyCharm typically be a 
better choice?

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#54197

In article <mailman.380.1379193791.5461.python-list@python.org>, memilanuk <memilanuk@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 09/12/2013 02:15 PM, Adrián Espinosa wrote:
>
>> I suggest you to use IntelliJ IDEA. It has a plugin for Python and Django
> (web framework). It works flawlessly.
>>
>
>If one were inclined to go that route, wouldn't PyCharm typically be a 
>better choice?
>
If you also do Java, IntelliJ Idea may be the better choice, if not, PyCharm. 
Idea + the plug in gives you the capabilities of PyCharm. 

Eric

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#54300

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:44:04 PM UTC+5:30, mnishpsyched wrote:
> Hey i am a programmer but new to python. Can anyone guide me in knowing which is a better IDE used to develop web related apps that connect to DB using python?

Just saw this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-dUkyn_fZA

Yeah... scientific programming and web programming are hardly the same :-)
Still it might be worth 20 minutes of your time

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