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Re: Don't feed the troll...

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  Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 07:58 -0400
    Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 15:40 +0000
      Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 18:41 +0200
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:12 +0000
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 20:30 +0300
          Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 10:36 -0700
            Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:52 +0000
              Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:18 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 19:29 +0000
                  Re: Don't feed the troll... alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 14:47 -0700
                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-15 23:04 +0100
                  Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-16 20:16 +0200
                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-16 20:04 +0000
                      Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-16 20:46 -0700
                        Re: Don't feed the troll... Ferrous Cranus <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 08:04 +0300
                          Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 17:23 +1000
                            Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 07:41 -0700
                              Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 07:43 +1000
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 18:03 -0700
                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 11:16 +1000
                              Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-17 23:22 +0100
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 18:08 -0700
                              Problems with Python documentation [Re: Don't feed the troll...] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-17 22:50 +0000
                                Re: Problems with Python documentation [Re: Don't feed the troll...] Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 21:11 -0400
                          Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 10:26 +0200
                        Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 10:15 +0200
                          Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 10:56 -0700
                            Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-18 10:22 +0200
                              Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:42 +0000
                              Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-18 20:46 -0700
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-19 12:57 +0200
                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-19 14:13 -0700
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-21 21:32 +0200
                                      Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-23 07:29 -0700
                                        Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-24 15:37 +0200
                                          Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-25 08:56 -0700
                                            Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-26 21:46 +0200
                                            Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 15:02 -0600
                                            Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-27 20:13 +0200
                                            Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-28 11:20 -0600
                                            Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-30 19:25 +0200
                                              Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-01 07:02 -0700
                                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 21:38 +0200
                                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-02 16:41 -0700
                                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 00:09 +1000
                                            Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 11:50 -0600
                                            Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-30 19:56 +0200
                                        Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 11:25 -0600
                                        Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-26 20:18 +0200
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 12:40 -0600
                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-20 00:47 +0000
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-19 19:45 -0400
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-20 11:41 +0200
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 20:40 -0600
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-21 11:18 +0200
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 10:19 -0600
                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 11:27 -0700
                      Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 09:31 +0200
                        Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-17 23:02 +0000
                          Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-18 11:02 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-15 12:54 -0700
                  Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 23:04 +0300
                    Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-15 13:12 -0700
                  Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 22:52 -0700
                  Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-16 20:39 +0200
                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Simpleton <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 19:03 +0300
                      Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-17 16:14 +0000
                        Re: Don't feed the troll... Simpleton <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 19:19 +0300
                          Re: Don't feed the troll... alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 21:39 -0700
                            Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 17:21 +1000
                              Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:38 +0000
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-18 19:48 -0400
                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-19 03:57 +0000
                              Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-18 20:49 -0700
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 17:07 +1000
                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-19 07:27 +0000
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 17:33 +1000
                  Re: Don't feed the troll... Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 11:53 -0400
          Re: Don't feed the troll... Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:49 -0600
          Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-15 18:45 +0100
          Re: Don't feed the troll... Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 19:58 +0200
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-17 14:39 +0000
          Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-17 12:35 -0400
          Re: Don't feed the troll... Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 18:42 +0100
            Re: Don't feed the troll... Νίκος <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 20:52 +0300
          Re: Don't feed the troll... Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-06-18 22:21 +1000
      Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 13:07 -0400
      Mailman forwarding (was: Don't feed the troll...) "W. Trevor King" <wking@tremily.us> - 2013-06-15 13:25 -0400
      Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 19:25 +0200
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:47 +0000
          Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 21:59 +0300
          Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 09:09 +1000
            Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-16 00:51 +0000
              CC etiquette for mailing lists (was: Don't feed the troll...) "W. Trevor King" <wking@tremily.us> - 2013-06-15 21:29 -0400
      Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 13:04 -0400

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#48358

On 06/15/2013 12:18 PM, rusi wrote:
> On Jun 15, 10:52 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
> +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 10:36:00 -0700, rusi wrote:
>> > With you as our spamming-guru, Onward! Sky is the limit!
>>
>> If you're going to continue making unproductive, off-topic, inflammatory
>> posts that prolong these already excessively large threads, Nikos won't
>> be the only one kill-filed.
> 
> At least two people -- Alex and Antoon -- have told you that by
> supporting Nikos, when everyone else wants him off list, you are part
> of the problem.

Nikos is only secondarily the problem, Steven not at all.

The primary problem is a (relatively small) number of people
who respond to every post by Nikos with a barrage of insults,
demands, (what they think are) witty repartee, hints intended 
to "make" Nikos learn something, useless (to Nikos) links, 
new threads to discuss the "Nikos problem", and other trash 
that is far more obnoxious that anything Nikos posts and just 
serves to egg him on.

Steven's advice on how to deal with Nikos was probably the
most sensible thing I've seen posted here on the subject.

I suggest that if you can and want to answer Nikos' question, 
do so directly and with a serious attempt address what it is 
he seems not to get, 
 or
killfile him and shut the fuck up.

>[...] 
> Everyone is exasperated and talking of kill-filing him.

Don't be silly.  You don't know what "everyone" (the vast 
majority of whom read and don't post) here think.

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#48361

On 15/6/2013 10:54 μμ, rurpy@yahoo.com wrote:
> On 06/15/2013 12:18 PM, rusi wrote:
>> On Jun 15, 10:52 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
>> +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 10:36:00 -0700, rusi wrote:
>>>> With you as our spamming-guru, Onward! Sky is the limit!
>>>
>>> If you're going to continue making unproductive, off-topic, inflammatory
>>> posts that prolong these already excessively large threads, Nikos won't
>>> be the only one kill-filed.
>>
>> At least two people -- Alex and Antoon -- have told you that by
>> supporting Nikos, when everyone else wants him off list, you are part
>> of the problem.
>
> Nikos is only secondarily the problem, Steven not at all.
>
> The primary problem is a (relatively small) number of people
> who respond to every post by Nikos with a barrage of insults,
> demands, (what they think are) witty repartee, hints intended
> to "make" Nikos learn something, useless (to Nikos) links,
> new threads to discuss the "Nikos problem", and other trash
> that is far more obnoxious that anything Nikos posts and just
> serves to egg him on.
>
> Steven's advice on how to deal with Nikos was probably the
> most sensible thing I've seen posted here on the subject.
>
> I suggest that if you can and want to answer Nikos' question,
> do so directly and with a serious attempt address what it is
> he seems not to get,
>   or
> killfile him and shut the fuck up.
>
>> [...]
>> Everyone is exasperated and talking of kill-filing him.
>
> Don't be silly.  You don't know what "everyone" (the vast
> majority of whom read and don't post) here think.
>

Thank you ruspy.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#48362

On Saturday, June 15, 2013 2:04:31 PM UTC-6, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:
> Thank you ruspy.

Don't thank me.  You are not contributing in a positive way to the situation.

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#48494

On Jun 16, 12:54 am, ru...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> ... killfile him and shut the fuck up.

Ok. Advice taken. Thanks.

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#48524

Op 15-06-13 21:54, rurpy@yahoo.com schreef:
> On 06/15/2013 12:18 PM, rusi wrote:
>> On Jun 15, 10:52 pm, Steven D'Aprano<steve
>> +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info>  wrote:
>>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 10:36:00 -0700, rusi wrote:
>>>> With you as our spamming-guru, Onward! Sky is the limit!
>>>
>>> If you're going to continue making unproductive, off-topic, inflammatory
>>> posts that prolong these already excessively large threads, Nikos won't
>>> be the only one kill-filed.
>>
>> At least two people -- Alex and Antoon -- have told you that by
>> supporting Nikos, when everyone else wants him off list, you are part
>> of the problem.
>
> Nikos is only secondarily the problem, Steven not at all.
>
> The primary problem is a (relatively small) number of people
> who respond to every post by Nikos with a barrage of insults,
> demands, (what they think are) witty repartee, hints intended
> to "make" Nikos learn something, useless (to Nikos) links,
> new threads to discuss the "Nikos problem", and other trash
> that is far more obnoxious that anything Nikos posts and just
> serves to egg him on.

Sorry but this is IMO a false equivallence. It ignores the
important distinction between action and reaction. Does
this number of people post a barrage of insult to no matter
who? And you may find those responses more obnoxious they
propbably are the reactions of people who are utterly fed
up and think that if nobody is concerned about their annoyance
they don't have to b econcerned about the annoyance of others
either.

> Steven's advice on how to deal with Nikos was probably the
> most sensible thing I've seen posted here on the subject.

Most sensible for what purpose? As far as I can see Steven's
advice will just prolong the cycle of Nikos continuing to ask
for spoonfeeding, showing very litle signs of understanding
and keeping to hop from one problem/bug to the next until
the mailing list has finished his project at which point
he will probably start something new.

If nikos's project was a college project we would have told
him he has to make his homework himself. But now he is earning
money with it, you seem to find it acceptable his job is done
for him.

> I suggest that if you can and want to answer Nikos' question,
> do so directly and with a serious attempt address what it is
> he seems not to get,
>   or
> killfile him and shut the fuck up.

I suggest that if you want this to continue being a hospitable
place, you don't encourage asocial behaviour. His behaviour
may not bother you so much, but that shouldn't be the norm
because others are less bothered with the barrage of insults
Nikos is now receiving than with Nikos vampirizing this list,
because they consider those insults deserved.

-- 
Antoon Pardon

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#48529

On 16/6/2013 9:39 μμ, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> If nikos's project was a college project we would have told
> him he has to make his homework himself.

This is where you all mistaken.

You see, my website could be done ina CMS like (Joomla or Drupal) or 
even in DreamWeaver.

I choosed Python because i like Python.
Mny of my friends and clients told me hey man your website is very 
simple, how not Joomla-lize it with cool animation effects and stuff?

Well, i could, but i dont want to because:

1. i want to learn Python
2. i want to have full control of my webisite, knowing each and every 
lien does, since i'm writing it.

 > But now he is earning
 > money with it, you seem to find it acceptable his job is done
 > for him.

No. I first try and inevitably i fail.
Than i ask, and ask not only to be shown to the correct way of handling 
the code, but i want to be informed of how you thought of implementing 
the situation at hand. This way i learn from your experience and iam 
getting better and better every day as we speak, which in turn make me 
fond of Python increasingly.


-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#48530

On 2013-06-17, Simpleton <support@superhost.gr> wrote:
> On 16/6/2013 9:39 ????, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> If nikos's project was a college project we would have told
>> him he has to make his homework himself.
>
> This is where you all mistaken.
>
> You see, my website could be done ina CMS like (Joomla or Drupal) or 
> even in DreamWeaver.
>
> I choosed Python because i like Python.
> Mny of my friends and clients told me hey man your website is very 
> simple, how not Joomla-lize it with cool animation effects and stuff?
>
> Well, i could, but i dont want to because:
>
> 1. i want to learn Python
> 2. i want to have full control of my webisite, knowing each and every 
> line does, since i'm writing it.
>
> > But now he is earning
> > money with it, you seem to find it acceptable his job is done
> > for him.
>
> No. I first try and inevitably i fail.

But failing _isn't_ inevitible.  If you take the time to actually
learn Python by reading the references people provide, by studying
small examples, and by experimenting with Python code, there's no
reason why you should fail.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! MY income is ALL
                                  at               disposable!
                              gmail.com            

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#48531

On 17/6/2013 7:14 μμ, Grant Edwards wrote:
> But failing _isn't_ inevitible.  If you take the time to actually
> learn Python by reading the references people provide, by studying
> small examples, and by experimenting with Python code, there's no
> reason why you should fail.

I'am and i feel better expressing my questions to a live human being 
that read help file after help file to find some answer to a problem i 
have to deal with.

Of course i spent you guys reply-time but many others(even experts) 
benefit from all this experience, not only me.

Also what i have learned here the last month would have taken me way 
longer if i was researching for my self from doc=>doc reference until i 
was able to understand something.

I like things to be put up simple and i'am not trolling this group.
I respect this group.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#48594

On Jun 18, 2:19 am, Simpleton <supp...@superhost.gr> wrote:
> I like things to be put up simple and i'am not trolling this group.
> I respect this group.

There are a number of things you could to do confirm this:

1. Stop changing your name.
2. Stop bumping your threads if no one responds.
3. Stop exaggerating the "benefit" your threads have for others.
4. Stop posting code chunks and saying "What now?" Show what you've
tried to debug the problem.
5. Stop ignoring requests to modify your behaviour while
simultaneously demanding that others here do.
6. Read the links people provide you and then ask further questions
using the content of those links as a basis.

tl;dr Stop acting like a troll and we'll stop perceiving you as such.

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#48603

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
> tl;dr Stop acting like a troll and we'll stop perceiving you as such.

This being Python-list, we duck-type. You don't have to declare that
you're a troll, like you would in C; you just react like a troll and
we'll treat you as one. We never ask "are you a troll", we just ask
"do you quack like a troll".

ChrisA

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#48626

On 2013-06-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
>> tl;dr Stop acting like a troll and we'll stop perceiving you as such.
>
> This being Python-list, we duck-type. You don't have to declare that
> you're a troll, like you would in C; you just react like a troll and
> we'll treat you as one. We never ask "are you a troll", we just ask
> "do you quack like a troll".

Indeed.  The "is he a troll" question is a discussion about internals.
And like many Python users, some of us do like to discuss questions
about internals (though we hopefully know enough not to depend on the
answers being the same tomorrow).

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! What I want to find
                                  at               out is -- do parrots know
                              gmail.com            much about Astro-Turf?

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#48674

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:38:40 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
<invalid@invalid.invalid> declaimed the following:

>On 2013-06-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> tl;dr Stop acting like a troll and we'll stop perceiving you as such.
>>
>> This being Python-list, we duck-type. You don't have to declare that
>> you're a troll, like you would in C; you just react like a troll and
>> we'll treat you as one. We never ask "are you a troll", we just ask
>> "do you quack like a troll".
>
>Indeed.  The "is he a troll" question is a discussion about internals.
>And like many Python users, some of us do like to discuss questions
>about internals (though we hopefully know enough not to depend on the
>answers being the same tomorrow).

	And suddenly I have visions of a Druidical reading of the entrails...
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#48682

On 2013-06-18, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:38:40 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
>>On 2013-06-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> tl;dr Stop acting like a troll and we'll stop perceiving you as such.
>>>
>>> This being Python-list, we duck-type. You don't have to declare that
>>> you're a troll, like you would in C; you just react like a troll and
>>> we'll treat you as one. We never ask "are you a troll", we just ask
>>> "do you quack like a troll".
>>
>>Indeed.  The "is he a troll" question is a discussion about internals.
>>And like many Python users, some of us do like to discuss questions
>>about internals (though we hopefully know enough not to depend on the
>>answers being the same tomorrow).
>
> And suddenly I have visions of a Druidical reading of the entrails...

Well, that might explain how some of the code I've seen recently in
this newsgroup was written.

-- 
Grant

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#48681

On 06/18/2013 01:21 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
>> tl;dr Stop acting like a troll and we'll stop perceiving you as such.
> 
> This being Python-list, we duck-type. You don't have to declare that
> you're a troll, like you would in C; you just react like a troll and
> we'll treat you as one. We never ask "are you a troll", we just ask
> "do you quack like a troll".

People are much more complex than Python objects.  While
duck-typing is a useful heuristic it does not guarantee
accurate results.  And keep in mind that stereotyping and 
racial profiling are forms of duck typing.  You need to
be careful when duck-typing people.

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#48689

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:49 PM,  <rurpy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 06/18/2013 01:21 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> tl;dr Stop acting like a troll and we'll stop perceiving you as such.
>>
>> This being Python-list, we duck-type. You don't have to declare that
>> you're a troll, like you would in C; you just react like a troll and
>> we'll treat you as one. We never ask "are you a troll", we just ask
>> "do you quack like a troll".
>
> People are much more complex than Python objects.  While
> duck-typing is a useful heuristic it does not guarantee
> accurate results.  And keep in mind that stereotyping and
> racial profiling are forms of duck typing.  You need to
> be careful when duck-typing people.

On the contrary, stereotyping is "You are-a <quality>, therefore you
will behave in <manner>". This is the opposite: "You behave like a
troll, therefore you are equivalent to a troll". Imagine if we treated
all those with green skin who live under bridges as trolls, no matter
how good their contributions...

ChrisA

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#48691

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:07:28 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On the contrary, stereotyping is "You are-a <quality>, therefore you
> will behave in <manner>". 

I don't think that's how stereotypes usually work.

"He wears a turban, therefore he's an Arab terrorist."

"He's wearing black, has pale skin, listens to that weird goth music I 
don't like, therefore he's a school-shooter."

"She's good looking and wears short skirts, therefore she's a slut."

"He's wearing a police uniform, therefore he's a policeman."



-- 
Steven

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#48694

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:07:28 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On the contrary, stereotyping is "You are-a <quality>, therefore you
>> will behave in <manner>".
>
> I don't think that's how stereotypes usually work.
>
> "He wears a turban, therefore he's an Arab terrorist."

Right, my terminology was a little sloppy but I was thinking more in
terms of one of the most common forms of stereotyping: racism. "You
have skin of this colour, therefore you are inferior or a criminal or
whatever". The <quality> is something visible, and the
expectation/assumption is utterly unrelated to it.

ChrisA

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#48527

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be
> wrote:

> Op 15-06-13 21:54, rurpy@yahoo.com schreef:
>
>  On 06/15/2013 12:18 PM, rusi wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 15, 10:52 pm, Steven D'Aprano<steve
>>> +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.**info <comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info>>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 10:36:00 -0700, rusi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> With you as our spamming-guru, Onward! Sky is the limit!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you're going to continue making unproductive, off-topic, inflammatory
>>>> posts that prolong these already excessively large threads, Nikos won't
>>>> be the only one kill-filed.
>>>>
>>>
>>> At least two people -- Alex and Antoon -- have told you that by
>>> supporting Nikos, when everyone else wants him off list, you are part
>>> of the problem.
>>>
>>
>> Nikos is only secondarily the problem, Steven not at all.
>>
>> The primary problem is a (relatively small) number of people
>> who respond to every post by Nikos with a barrage of insults,
>> demands, (what they think are) witty repartee, hints intended
>> to "make" Nikos learn something, useless (to Nikos) links,
>> new threads to discuss the "Nikos problem", and other trash
>> that is far more obnoxious that anything Nikos posts and just
>> serves to egg him on.
>>
>
> Sorry but this is IMO a false equivallence. It ignores the
> important distinction between action and reaction. Does
> this number of people post a barrage of insult to no matter
> who? And you may find those responses more obnoxious they
> propbably are the reactions of people who are utterly fed
> up and think that if nobody is concerned about their annoyance
> they don't have to b econcerned about the annoyance of others
> either.
>
>
>  Steven's advice on how to deal with Nikos was probably the
>> most sensible thing I've seen posted here on the subject.
>>
>
> Most sensible for what purpose? As far as I can see Steven's
> advice will just prolong the cycle of Nikos continuing to ask
> for spoonfeeding, showing very litle signs of understanding
> and keeping to hop from one problem/bug to the next until
> the mailing list has finished his project at which point
> he will probably start something new.
>
> If nikos's project was a college project we would have told
> him he has to make his homework himself. But now he is earning
> money with it, you seem to find it acceptable his job is done
> for him.
>
>
>  I suggest that if you can and want to answer Nikos' question,
>> do so directly and with a serious attempt address what it is
>> he seems not to get,
>>   or
>> killfile him and shut the fuck up.
>>
>
> I suggest that if you want this to continue being a hospitable
> place, you don't encourage asocial behaviour. His behaviour
> may not bother you so much, but that shouldn't be the norm
> because others are less bothered with the barrage of insults
> Nikos is now receiving than with Nikos vampirizing this list,
> because they consider those insults deserved.
>
>
> --
> Antoon Pardon
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>


I'm with Antoon on this.  If you look at this group, it almost completely
revolves around the guy from Greece with 3 or 4 or 5 different email
addresses.  His area of interest is repetitive:

1. Get me out of the Unicode hell that is my own making
2. Do my linux sys admin for me
3. I can't be bothered with understanding what more there is to making
software other than cutting and pasting code that other people are willing
to write for me
4. Go back to [1] and start again.

If you need to understand unicode and or hex notation, or binary notation
(and most likely you will if you write code for a living), then go learn
about those things.  If you are unwilling to do that, then go away.



If you think its best to help this person, and be kind to him, and
encourage him to become a better citizen, please remember that being
inviting to a person who ruins the party for everyone is not being
respectful of everyone else.

All the while monopolizing many threads

>From my perspective there seems to be some interesting people here with a
wide array of experience and knowledge, whose understand and opinions I
find fun and useful to read.   All of that is drowned out by the freight
train from superhost.gr


-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com

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#48336

On 06/15/2013 11:30 AM, Nick the Gr33k wrote:
> You are spamming my thread.

No he's not.  The subject is changed on this branch of the thread, so
it's easy to see in any good e-mail reader that this sub-thread or
branch is diverting.  This is proper list etiquette.

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#48337

On 15/06/2013 18:30, Nick the Gr33k wrote:
> On 15/6/2013 7:41 μμ, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote:
>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 07:58:27 -0400, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
>>>
>>>> I suggested including the poster that you are replying to.
>>>
>>> In the name of all that's good and decent in the world, why on earth
>>> would you do that when replying to a mailing list??? They're already
>>> getting a reply. Sending them TWO identical replies is just rude.
>>
>> Mailman is intelligent enough not to send a second copy in that case.
>> This message was sent with a CC, and you got only one copy.
>>
>> --
>> Kwpolska <http://kwpolska.tk> | GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16
>> stop html mail                | always bottom-post
>> http://asciiribbon.org        | http://caliburn.nl/topposting.html
>>
> You are spamming my thread.
>

Funniest thing I've read in years, try taking up writing comedy instead 
of anything involving computing.

-- 
"Steve is going for the pink ball - and for those of you who are 
watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green." Snooker 
commentator 'Whispering' Ted Lowe.

Mark Lawrence

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