Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.albasani.net!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.185 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.63; '*S*': 0.00; '16,': 0.03; 'read.': 0.03; 'binary': 0.07; 'sys': 0.07; 'useless': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python- list': 0.11; 'suggest': 0.14; 'posted': 0.15; '(relatively': 0.16; 'behaviour.': 0.16; 'demands,': 0.16; 'egg': 0.16; 'get,': 0.16; 'hex': 0.16; 'himself.': 0.16; 'notation': 0.16; 'notation,': 0.16; 'secondarily': 0.16; 'threads,': 0.16; 'utterly': 0.16; 'who?': 0.16; 'sat,': 0.16; 'all.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'alex': 0.19; 'finished': 0.19; 'things.': 0.19; 'seems': 0.21; '>>>': 0.22; 'admin': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'either.': 0.24; 'him.': 0.24; "shouldn't": 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; '15,': 0.26; 'posts': 0.26; 'train': 0.26; 'post': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'primary': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; '[1]': 0.29; 'array': 0.29; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'url:mailman': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; '-0700,': 0.31; '>>>>': 0.31; 'away.': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'this.': 0.32; 'probably': 0.32; 'linux': 0.33; 'up.': 0.33; 'url:python': 0.33; 'everyone': 0.33; 'continuing': 0.33; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; "can't": 0.35; 'advice': 0.35; 'problem.': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'acceptable': 0.36; 'false': 0.36; 'done': 0.36; 'url:listinfo': 0.36; 'next': 0.36; 'useful': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'list': 0.37; 'project': 0.37; 'area': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'skip:& 10': 0.38; 'question,': 0.38; 'list,': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'that,': 0.38; 'anything': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'supporting': 0.39; 'mailing': 0.39; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'guy': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'new': 0.61; 'matter': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; 'discuss': 0.62; 'back': 0.62; 'making': 0.63; 'address': 0.63; 'kind': 0.63; 'group,': 0.63; 'email addr:yahoo.com': 0.64; 'our': 0.64; 'him,': 0.64; 'interest': 0.64; 'become': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'here': 0.66; 'between': 0.67; 'bothered': 0.68; 'hints': 0.68; 'nobody': 0.68; 'person,': 0.68; 'college': 0.70; 'opinions': 0.70; 'money': 0.72; 'links,': 0.74; 'subject.': 0.74; 'are)': 0.84; 'fuck': 0.84; 'greece': 0.84; 'homework': 0.84; 'inflammatory': 0.84; 'much,': 0.84; 'norm': 0.84; 'pardon': 0.84; 'pasting': 0.84; 'prolong': 0.84; 'sky': 0.84; 'cutting': 0.91; 'freight': 0.91; 'joel': 0.91; 'rusi': 0.91; 'subject:Don': 0.91; 'responses': 0.93; 'earning': 0.97; 'serious': 0.97; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8SxrLMi8VP7V+zJVhkJn+YhdzYt1XM/smGcIu03x7hw=; b=eVbP65RGSh0TwHiixxorKQpThpcx2/8cz7weabdDBn5SXbPdNqWQ0u+mNlKYIPGKl8 KVYoD415wVZHEjJxRMJ/pOWorn3jH2bnf4TZm7ZUblrv8dVB98itVYs7Pj8IQBB3dgmi HtUaI/MIa4bevc6ER52lUN5+NmgWm/d6cVmn4DTzy2HlNZG7ex8IBJeOfr1JwsfzgbGq DYlCQ/l5saqdRGxHJpgg4KNB+McQWQTIXK6jKZS9McEXXp1AEmSkluIWzuvveklDM1u1 Bf5+M6VCNkGd4sp3NFywrNOGErgawYkdvO0vb5oHcvIDXZ/c5WDL1vhln7C9ZTaShFdh hmcA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.93.15 with SMTP id cq15mr405135vdb.45.1371484437288; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 08:53:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51BE067C.5050900@rece.vub.ac.be> References: <7wfvwkcihf.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20130615020957.GA72426@cskk.homeip.net> <7w61xfa9y8.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <51bc8af2$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <6dc5124d-3b00-4d53-a555-b7f31765abd7@ow4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> <51bca9eb$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <35734e52-2396-4ec2-938f-d5b0f592adf5@4g2000pbf.googlegroups.com> <74df2815-b197-44ea-a3bb-ad27ea81862a@googlegroups.com> <51BE067C.5050900@rece.vub.ac.be> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:53:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Don't feed the troll... From: Joel Goldstick To: Antoon Pardon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3071c6a8b31c0804df5b9a0c Cc: "python-list@python.org" X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 253 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1371484446 news.xs4all.nl 15904 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:48227 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:48527 --20cf3071c6a8b31c0804df5b9a0c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Antoon Pardon wrote: > Op 15-06-13 21:54, rurpy@yahoo.com schreef: > > On 06/15/2013 12:18 PM, rusi wrote: >> >>> On Jun 15, 10:52 pm, Steven D'Aprano>> +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.**info > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 10:36:00 -0700, rusi wrote: >>>> >>>>> With you as our spamming-guru, Onward! Sky is the limit! >>>>> >>>> >>>> If you're going to continue making unproductive, off-topic, inflammatory >>>> posts that prolong these already excessively large threads, Nikos won't >>>> be the only one kill-filed. >>>> >>> >>> At least two people -- Alex and Antoon -- have told you that by >>> supporting Nikos, when everyone else wants him off list, you are part >>> of the problem. >>> >> >> Nikos is only secondarily the problem, Steven not at all. >> >> The primary problem is a (relatively small) number of people >> who respond to every post by Nikos with a barrage of insults, >> demands, (what they think are) witty repartee, hints intended >> to "make" Nikos learn something, useless (to Nikos) links, >> new threads to discuss the "Nikos problem", and other trash >> that is far more obnoxious that anything Nikos posts and just >> serves to egg him on. >> > > Sorry but this is IMO a false equivallence. It ignores the > important distinction between action and reaction. Does > this number of people post a barrage of insult to no matter > who? And you may find those responses more obnoxious they > propbably are the reactions of people who are utterly fed > up and think that if nobody is concerned about their annoyance > they don't have to b econcerned about the annoyance of others > either. > > > Steven's advice on how to deal with Nikos was probably the >> most sensible thing I've seen posted here on the subject. >> > > Most sensible for what purpose? As far as I can see Steven's > advice will just prolong the cycle of Nikos continuing to ask > for spoonfeeding, showing very litle signs of understanding > and keeping to hop from one problem/bug to the next until > the mailing list has finished his project at which point > he will probably start something new. > > If nikos's project was a college project we would have told > him he has to make his homework himself. But now he is earning > money with it, you seem to find it acceptable his job is done > for him. > > > I suggest that if you can and want to answer Nikos' question, >> do so directly and with a serious attempt address what it is >> he seems not to get, >> or >> killfile him and shut the fuck up. >> > > I suggest that if you want this to continue being a hospitable > place, you don't encourage asocial behaviour. His behaviour > may not bother you so much, but that shouldn't be the norm > because others are less bothered with the barrage of insults > Nikos is now receiving than with Nikos vampirizing this list, > because they consider those insults deserved. > > > -- > Antoon Pardon > -- > http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list > I'm with Antoon on this. If you look at this group, it almost completely revolves around the guy from Greece with 3 or 4 or 5 different email addresses. His area of interest is repetitive: 1. Get me out of the Unicode hell that is my own making 2. Do my linux sys admin for me 3. I can't be bothered with understanding what more there is to making software other than cutting and pasting code that other people are willing to write for me 4. Go back to [1] and start again. If you need to understand unicode and or hex notation, or binary notation (and most likely you will if you write code for a living), then go learn about those things. If you are unwilling to do that, then go away. If you think its best to help this person, and be kind to him, and encourage him to become a better citizen, please remember that being inviting to a person who ruins the party for everyone is not being respectful of everyone else. All the while monopolizing many threads >From my perspective there seems to be some interesting people here with a wide array of experience and knowledge, whose understand and opinions I find fun and useful to read. All of that is drowned out by the freight train from superhost.gr -- Joel Goldstick http://joelgoldstick.com --20cf3071c6a8b31c0804df5b9a0c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Antoon Pardon &l= t;antoon.= pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
Op 15-06-13 21:54, rurpy@yahoo.com schreef:
<= br>
On 06/15/2013 12:18 PM, rusi wrote:
On Jun 15, 10:52 pm, Steven D'Aprano<steve
+comp.l= ang.pyt...@pearwood.info> =C2=A0wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 10:36:00 -0700, rusi wrote:
With you as our spamming-guru, Onward! Sky is the limit!

If you're going to continue making unproductive, off-topic, inflammator= y
posts that prolong these already excessively large threads, Nikos won't=
be the only one kill-filed.

At least two people -- Alex and Antoon -- have told you that by
supporting Nikos, when everyone else wants him off list, you are part
of the problem.

Nikos is only secondarily the problem, Steven not at all.

The primary problem is a (relatively small) number of people
who respond to every post by Nikos with a barrage of insults,
demands, (what they think are) witty repartee, hints intended
to "make" Nikos learn something, useless (to Nikos) links,
new threads to discuss the "Nikos problem", and other trash
that is far more obnoxious that anything Nikos posts and just
serves to egg him on.

Sorry but this is IMO a false equivallence. It ignores the
important distinction between action and reaction. Does
this number of people post a barrage of insult to no matter
who? And you may find those responses more obnoxious they
propbably are the reactions of people who are utterly fed
up and think that if nobody is concerned about their annoyance
they don't have to b econcerned about the annoyance of others
either.


Steven's advice on how to deal with Nikos was probably the
most sensible thing I've seen posted here on the subject.

Most sensible for what purpose? As far as I can see Steven's
advice will just prolong the cycle of Nikos continuing to ask
for spoonfeeding, showing very litle signs of understanding
and keeping to hop from one problem/bug to the next until
the mailing list has finished his project at which point
he will probably start something new.

If nikos's project was a college project we would have told
him he has to make his homework himself. But now he is earning
money with it, you seem to find it acceptable his job is done
for him.


I suggest that if you can and want to answer Nikos' question,
do so directly and with a serious attempt address what it is
he seems not to get,
=C2=A0 or
killfile him and shut the fuck up.

I suggest that if you want this to continue being a hospitable
place, you don't encourage asocial behaviour. His behaviour
may not bother you so much, but that shouldn't be the norm
because others are less bothered with the barrage of insults
Nikos is now receiving than with Nikos vampirizing this list,
because they consider those insults deserved.


I'm with Antoon on this.=C2=A0 If you look at this group, it= almost completely revolves around the guy from Greece with 3 or 4 or 5 dif= ferent email addresses.=C2=A0 His area of interest is repetitive:

1. Get me out of the Unicode hell that= is my own making
2. Do my linux sys ad= min for me
3. I can't be bothered w= ith understanding what more there is to making software other than cutting = and pasting code that other people are willing to write for me
4. Go back to [1] and start again.

=
If you need to understand unicode and or h= ex notation, or binary notation (and most likely you will if you write code= for a living), then go learn about those things.=C2=A0 If you are unwillin= g to do that, then go away.



If you think its best to help this person, and be kind to him, = and encourage him to become a better citizen, please remember that being in= viting to a person who ruins the party for everyone is not being respectful= of everyone else.

All t= he while monopolizing many threads

= >From my perspective there seems to be some interesting people here with a w= ide array of experience and knowledge, whose understand and opinions I find= fun and useful to read.=C2=A0=C2=A0 All of that is drowned out by the frei= ght train from superhost.gr


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