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Groups > comp.lang.python > #48289 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-06-15 07:58 -0400 |
| Last post | 2013-06-15 13:04 -0400 |
| Articles | 15 on this page of 95 — 22 participants |
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Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 07:58 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 15:40 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 18:41 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:12 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 20:30 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 10:36 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:52 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:18 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 19:29 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 14:47 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-15 23:04 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-16 20:16 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-16 20:04 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-16 20:46 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ferrous Cranus <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 08:04 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 17:23 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 07:41 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 07:43 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 18:03 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 11:16 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-17 23:22 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 18:08 -0700
Problems with Python documentation [Re: Don't feed the troll...] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-17 22:50 +0000
Re: Problems with Python documentation [Re: Don't feed the troll...] Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 21:11 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 10:26 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 10:15 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 10:56 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-18 10:22 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:42 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-18 20:46 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-19 12:57 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-19 14:13 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-21 21:32 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-23 07:29 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-24 15:37 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-25 08:56 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-26 21:46 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 15:02 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-27 20:13 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-28 11:20 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-30 19:25 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-01 07:02 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 21:38 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-02 16:41 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 00:09 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 11:50 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-30 19:56 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 11:25 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-26 20:18 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 12:40 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-20 00:47 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-19 19:45 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-20 11:41 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 20:40 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-21 11:18 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 10:19 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 11:27 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 09:31 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-17 23:02 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-18 11:02 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-15 12:54 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 23:04 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-15 13:12 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 22:52 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-16 20:39 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Simpleton <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 19:03 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-17 16:14 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Simpleton <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 19:19 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 21:39 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 17:21 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:38 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-18 19:48 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-19 03:57 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-18 20:49 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 17:07 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-19 07:27 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 17:33 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 11:53 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:49 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-15 18:45 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 19:58 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-17 14:39 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-17 12:35 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 18:42 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... Νίκος <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 20:52 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-06-18 22:21 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 13:07 -0400
Mailman forwarding (was: Don't feed the troll...) "W. Trevor King" <wking@tremily.us> - 2013-06-15 13:25 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 19:25 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:47 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 21:59 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 09:09 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-16 00:51 +0000
CC etiquette for mailing lists (was: Don't feed the troll...) "W. Trevor King" <wking@tremily.us> - 2013-06-15 21:29 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 13:04 -0400
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| From | Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 19:58 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3398.1371319111.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48329 |
Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> wrote: >You are spamming my thread. Well, you don't own this thread. In fact nobody owns it. This is a public forum and thus anybody can answer to any post as he likes. Bye, Andreas
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| From | Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-17 14:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <kpn73s$qha$1@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #48319 |
On 2013-06-15, Chris ???Kwpolska??? Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano
><steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 07:58:27 -0400, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
>>
>>> I suggested including the poster that you are replying to.
>>
>> In the name of all that's good and decent in the world, why on earth
>> would you do that when replying to a mailing list??? They're already
>> getting a reply. Sending them TWO identical replies is just rude.
>
> Mailman is intelligent enough not to send a second copy in that case.
> This message was sent with a CC, and you got only one copy.
I don't want _any_ copies from from Mailman. I don't subscribe to
whatever mailing list you're talking about. I'm reading this via an
NNTP server. Keep replies in the group or on the list.
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I just remembered
at something about a TOAD!
gmail.com
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| From | "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-17 12:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3489.1371486964.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48519 |
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:39:56 +0000 (UTC) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > I don't want _any_ copies from from Mailman. I don't subscribe to > whatever mailing list you're talking about. I'm reading this via an > NNTP server. Keep replies in the group or on the list. And that is part of the problem. I have always argued that gatewaying the mailing list to newgroups is wrong. If this was only a mailing list there are many things we could do to reduce abuse but because of the gateway they can't be done. Not that it matters to me any more. I have finally decided that this list is just more noise to signal than I care to deal with. If anyone has any comments for me you will have to Cc me as I am outa here. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.net> | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 788 2246 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner. IM: darcy@Vex.Net, VOIP: sip:darcy@Vex.Net
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| From | Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-17 18:42 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3492.1371490989.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48519 |
On 17 June 2013 17:35, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.net> wrote: > On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:39:56 +0000 (UTC) > Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> I don't want _any_ copies from from Mailman. I don't subscribe to >> whatever mailing list you're talking about. I'm reading this via an >> NNTP server. Keep replies in the group or on the list. > > And that is part of the problem. I have always argued that gatewaying > the mailing list to newgroups is wrong. If this was only a mailing > list there are many things we could do to reduce abuse but because of > the gateway they can't be done. There is a very simple solution used by many mailing lists which is to set the Reply-To header to point back to the mailing list. That way any old email client on any OS/computer/phone/website etc. has the required button to reply to the list without CCing anyone. It also reduces the chance of accidentally replying off-list. Anyone who wants to reply off-list or to deliberately CC someone (as I did here) can still do so but it will rarely happen accidentally. Oscar
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| From | Νίκος <support@superhost.gr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-17 20:52 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <kpnid4$av7$3@news.grnet.gr> |
| In reply to | #48544 |
On 17/6/2013 8:42 μμ, Oscar Benjamin wrote: > On 17 June 2013 17:35, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.net> wrote: >> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:39:56 +0000 (UTC) >> Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> I don't want _any_ copies from from Mailman. I don't subscribe to >>> whatever mailing list you're talking about. I'm reading this via an >>> NNTP server. Keep replies in the group or on the list. >> >> And that is part of the problem. I have always argued that gatewaying >> the mailing list to newgroups is wrong. If this was only a mailing >> list there are many things we could do to reduce abuse but because of >> the gateway they can't be done. > > There is a very simple solution used by many mailing lists which is to > set the Reply-To header to point back to the mailing list. That way > any old email client on any OS/computer/phone/website etc. has the > required button to reply to the list without CCing anyone. It also > reduces the chance of accidentally replying off-list. Anyone who wants > to reply off-list or to deliberately CC someone (as I did here) can > still do so but it will rarely happen accidentally. > > > Oscar Yes please anyone do so, so we dont get 2 notification in both our mail reader and news reader at the same time. just repley only to the list. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined!
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| From | Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-18 22:21 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3528.1371558137.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48519 |
Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> writes: > There is a very simple solution used by many mailing lists Yes, that solution is described in RFC 2369: the “List-Post” field in the header of every message sent through the mailing list. > which is to set the Reply-To header to point back to the mailing list. That is not a solution, since the ‘Reply-To’ field already has a different purpose contrary to your intent. It is to be set by the person sending the message, if they choose. It is not for some intermediary to interfere with. It is a field for the sender to direct *individual* responses back to themselves – and, if they don't set that field, no intermediary should abuse it. > That way any old email client on any OS/computer/phone/website etc. > has the required button to reply to the list without CCing anyone. By breaking the standard “reply to author” behaviour. This is not a solution. The “List-Post” field has been standard for more than a decade. If anyone is using an MUA that doesn't use it, please imrpove that situation: pressure your vendor to fix that deficiency, and/or switch to a better mail client until then. > It also reduces the chance of accidentally replying off-list. What damage is done by accidentally replying off-list? At worst, you merely need to send the message again to the list. The damage is minimal, and easily rectified. Your proposed interference with the “Reply-To” field, though, invites much more serious errors: it sets up a person to send a message to people they did *not* intend, when using a function (“reply to author”, often simply called “reply”) specifically for reaching the sender *only*. If your message contains information only intended to be seen by the author to whom they are replying, the standard behaviour for “Reply-To” gives the reasonable expectation it will go only to the author. But if a broken mailing list that munges “Reply-To” to direct your reply to the whole mailing list, that is damage which can't be un-done. Please don't propose breaking standard behaviour by interfering with the meaning of standard fields. We have exactly the fields we need already: the RFC 2369 fields are in the header of every message from the mailing list. The “List-Post” field, saying where mail should be directed to reach the mailing list, is exactly what is needed. -- \ “Ours is a world where people don't know what they want and are | `\ willing to go through hell to get it.” —Donald Robert Perry | _o__) Marquis | Ben Finney
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| From | "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 13:07 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3388.1371316057.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48312 |
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 18:41:41 +0200 Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano > <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > > In the name of all that's good and decent in the world, why on earth > > would you do that when replying to a mailing list??? They're already > > getting a reply. Sending them TWO identical replies is just rude. > > Mailman is intelligent enough not to send a second copy in that case. > This message was sent with a CC, and you got only one copy. Actually, no. Mailman is not your MTA. It only gets the email sent to the mailing list. Your MTA sends the other one directly so Steve is correct. He gets two copies. If his client doesn't suppress the duplicate then he will be presented with both. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.net> | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 788 2246 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner. IM: darcy@Vex.Net, VOIP: sip:darcy@Vex.Net
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| From | "W. Trevor King" <wking@tremily.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 13:25 -0400 |
| Subject | Mailman forwarding (was: Don't feed the troll...) |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3390.1371317147.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48312 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 01:07:29PM -0400, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote: > On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 18:41:41 +0200 Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > > In the name of all that's good and decent in the world, why on earth > > > would you do that when replying to a mailing list??? They're already > > > getting a reply. Sending them TWO identical replies is just rude. > > > > Mailman is intelligent enough not to send a second copy in that case. > > This message was sent with a CC, and you got only one copy. > > Actually, no. Mailman is not your MTA. It only gets the email sent to > the mailing list. Your MTA sends the other one directly so Steve is > correct. He gets two copies. If his client doesn't suppress the > duplicate then he will be presented with both. Mailman can (optionally) assume that addresses listed in To, CC, … fields received an out-of-band copies, and not mail them an additional copy [1]. Cheers, Trevor [1]: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node21.html -- This email may be signed or encrypted with GnuPG (http://www.gnupg.org). For more information, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy
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| From | Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 19:25 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3391.1371317151.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48312 |
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 7:07 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.net> wrote: > On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 18:41:41 +0200 > Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano >> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: >> > In the name of all that's good and decent in the world, why on earth >> > would you do that when replying to a mailing list??? They're already >> > getting a reply. Sending them TWO identical replies is just rude. >> >> Mailman is intelligent enough not to send a second copy in that case. >> This message was sent with a CC, and you got only one copy. > > Actually, no. Mailman is not your MTA. It only gets the email sent to > the mailing list. Your MTA sends the other one directly so Steve is > correct. He gets two copies. If his client doesn't suppress the > duplicate then he will be presented with both. The source code seems to think otherwise: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/3.0/view/head:/src/mailman/handlers/avoid_duplicates.py On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > Wrong. I got two copies. One via comp.lang.python, and one direct to me. You are subscribed through Usenet and not <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, in which case the above doesn’t apply, because Mailman throws the mail to Usenet and not you personally. -- Kwpolska <http://kwpolska.tk> | GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16 stop html mail | always bottom-post http://asciiribbon.org | http://caliburn.nl/topposting.html
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 17:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51bca8a2$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #48327 |
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:25:21 +0200, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote: > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 7:07 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.net> > wrote: >> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 18:41:41 +0200 >> Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano >>> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: >>> > In the name of all that's good and decent in the world, why on earth >>> > would you do that when replying to a mailing list??? They're already >>> > getting a reply. Sending them TWO identical replies is just rude. >>> >>> Mailman is intelligent enough not to send a second copy in that case. >>> This message was sent with a CC, and you got only one copy. >> >> Actually, no. Mailman is not your MTA. It only gets the email sent to >> the mailing list. Your MTA sends the other one directly so Steve is >> correct. He gets two copies. If his client doesn't suppress the >> duplicate then he will be presented with both. > > The source code seems to think otherwise: Mailman is not the only mailing list software in the world, and the feature you are referring to is optional. > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/3.0/view/head:/src/ mailman/handlers/avoid_duplicates.py > > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Steven D'Aprano > <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: >> Wrong. I got two copies. One via comp.lang.python, and one direct to >> me. > > You are subscribed through Usenet and not > <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, in which case the > above doesn’t apply, because Mailman throws the mail to Usenet and not > you personally. I still get two copies if you CC me. That's still unnecessary and rude. If I wanted a copy emailed to me, I'd subscribe via email rather than via news. Whether you agree or not, I'd appreciate if you respect my wishes rather than try to wiggle out of it on a technicality. -- Steven
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| From | Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 21:59 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <kpidio$3kp$1@news.ntua.gr> |
| In reply to | #48335 |
On 15/6/2013 8:47 μμ, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I still get two copies if you CC me. That's still unnecessary and rude. > If I wanted a copy emailed to me, I'd subscribe via email rather than via > news. Whether you agree or not, I'd appreciate if you respect my wishes > rather than try to wiggle out of it on a technicality. I'am also getting 2 notifications two of any response in TB One in the news section and one by mail. Please do not CC. If i wanted mail notification i would subscribed via email. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined!
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-16 09:09 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3418.1371337787.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48335 |
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:25:21 +0200, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote: >> The source code seems to think otherwise: > > Mailman is not the only mailing list software in the world, and the > feature you are referring to is optional. > >> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/3.0/view/head:/src/ > mailman/handlers/avoid_duplicates.py Mailman is the software that runs python-list@python.org, so this *is* applicable to everyone who reads the mailing list (including myself). The fact that there's other mailing list software isn't significant; the fact that there's comp.lang.python, though, is. But I think people have realized that now. ChrisA
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-16 00:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51bd0bf8$0$29966$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #48384 |
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 09:09:37 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Steven D'Aprano > <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: >> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:25:21 +0200, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote: >>> The source code seems to think otherwise: >> >> Mailman is not the only mailing list software in the world, and the >> feature you are referring to is optional. >> >>> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/3.0/view/head:/ src/ >> mailman/handlers/avoid_duplicates.py > > Mailman is the software that runs python-list@python.org, so this *is* > applicable to everyone who reads the mailing list (including myself). > The fact that there's other mailing list software isn't significant; I'm not making an argument about CCing the sender on specifically this list, I'm making a general observations about list etiquette in general. -- Steven
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| From | "W. Trevor King" <wking@tremily.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 21:29 -0400 |
| Subject | CC etiquette for mailing lists (was: Don't feed the troll...) |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3422.1371346160.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48390 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:51:04AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 09:09:37 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > Mailman is the software that runs python-list@python.org, so this
> > *is* applicable to everyone who reads the mailing list (including
> > myself). The fact that there's other mailing list software isn't
> > significant;
>
> I'm not making an argument about CCing the sender on specifically
> this list, I'm making a general observations about list etiquette in
> general.
For some lists [1], the convention *is* to CC interested parties
(which presumably includes the person who's message you are replying
to). In the case of Mailman-hosted lists, it would seem to be more
considerate to CC folks (since they can opt-out via Mailman), while
folks who only follow the list via occasionally reading Gmane [2] will
probably appreciate the direct ping. I'm not saying that this should
be the convention for python-list@, I'm just saying that it's not
immediately obvious what the conventions are for a particular list [3],
and there are valid arguments going both ways.
What seems more obvious (to me), is that it's polite to adjust the
subject line if your response if far enough off-topic that the
original subject no longer applies ;).
Cheers,
Trevor
[1]: http://git.kernel.org/cgit/git/git.git/tree/MaintNotes?h=todo#n10
[2]: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general
[3]: Unless you tell new subscribers what the conventions are. For
example, the git@ list emails [1] to new list subscribers.
--
This email may be signed or encrypted with GnuPG (http://www.gnupg.org).
For more information, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy
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| From | "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 13:04 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3482.1371482450.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48312 |
On 15 Jun 2013 15:40:35 GMT Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 07:58:27 -0400, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote: > > I suggested including the poster that you are replying to. > > In the name of all that's good and decent in the world, why on earth > would you do that when replying to a mailing list??? They're already > getting a reply. Sending them TWO identical replies is just rude. You may disagree with my reasoning but I have presented it a few times. By the way, I did reply just to the list this time as you obviously disagree but I may forget in the future. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.net> | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 788 2246 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner. IM: darcy@Vex.Net, VOIP: sip:darcy@Vex.Net
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