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Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend

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  Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend bradleybooth12345@gmail.com - 2013-11-19 10:40 -0800
    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend maxwell34m@gmail.com - 2013-11-19 11:05 -0800
    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Neil Cerutti <mr.cerutti@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 14:07 -0500
    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Gary Herron <gary.herron@islandtraining.com> - 2013-11-19 11:06 -0800
    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend bradleybooth12345@gmail.com - 2013-11-19 11:27 -0800
      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 20:48 +0000
        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-20 11:38 +0000
          Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-23 02:03 +0000
      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 14:51 -0800
    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-20 00:17 +0000
      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-11-19 22:10 -0500
        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-20 03:52 +0000
          Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-11-20 00:54 -0500
            Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 09:29 +0000
              Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 13:57 +0000
                Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 14:51 +0000
                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-20 18:33 -0500
                    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2013-11-21 15:44 +0200
                Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 14:49 +0000
                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 02:05 +1100
                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:06 +0000
                    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:09 +0000
                      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 02:14 +1100
                        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:35 +0000
                          Multiple postings Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:36 +0000
                        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:34 +0000
                          Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 16:29 +0000
                            Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 16:45 +0000
                            Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-20 09:12 -0800
                              Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 17:37 +0000
                                Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-20 09:51 -0800
                                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 18:09 +0000
                                    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-20 10:18 -0800
                                      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 18:35 +0000
                                        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-20 11:54 -0800
                                      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 07:26 +1100
                                    Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-21 00:27 +0000
                                      Re: Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-11-21 00:48 +0000
                                      Re: Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend] Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2013-11-21 09:08 +0000
                                        Re: Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to   Help a Friend] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-11-22 17:10 +1300
                                      Re: Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 20:46 +1100
                                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-21 12:53 +0100
                                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-22 02:48 +1100
                                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Neil Cerutti <mr.cerutti@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 11:29 -0500
                                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-22 04:10 +1100
                                    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend bradleybooth12345@gmail.com - 2013-11-21 15:17 -0800
                                      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Gary Herron <gary.herron@islandtraining.com> - 2013-11-21 15:35 -0800
                                        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend bradleybooth12345@gmail.com - 2013-11-21 15:55 -0800
                                          Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-21 19:55 -0500
                                          Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Gary Herron <gary.herron@islandtraining.com> - 2013-11-21 20:17 -0800
                                      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-21 19:17 -0500
                        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:34 +0000
                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:06 +0000
                    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 15:24 +0000
                Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 14:50 +0000
                Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 14:50 +0000
            Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 09:29 +0000

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#60018 — Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend

Hi,

A Friend is doing maths in University and has had some coursework to do with python.

The question is 

"Write a program that calculates how many positive integers less than N are not divisible by 2,3 or 5. The user should be prompted to supply the Number N. Demonstrate your program output when the input N is your student id. (13006517)

"The collatz process is as follows. Take a positive integer n greater than 1. while n is greater than 1 repeat the following; if N is even halve it and if N is odd multiply it by 3 and add 1. The (Unsolved) collatz conjecture is that this process always terminates.

The user should be prompted to supply the number n, and your program should build the list of values taken by sucessive iteration of the algorithm, and print it out. For example, if 7 is input your program should print the list 

[7,22,11,34,17,52,26,13,40,20,10,5,16,8,4,2,1]

Demonstrate your program output for an input value consisting of the number formed adding 10 to the last digit of your student id. (13006517)"

Any help would be appreciated

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#60022

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 10:40:18 AM UTC-8, bradleyb...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> A Friend is doing maths in University and has had some coursework to do with python.
> 
> 
> 
> The question is 
> 
> 
> 
> "Write a program that calculates how many positive integers less than N are not divisible by 2,3 or 5. The user should be prompted to supply the Number N. Demonstrate your program output when the input N is your student id. (13006517)
> 
> 
> 
> "The collatz process is as follows. Take a positive integer n greater than 1. while n is greater than 1 repeat the following; if N is even halve it and if N is odd multiply it by 3 and add 1. The (Unsolved) collatz conjecture is that this process always terminates.
> 
> 
> 
> The user should be prompted to supply the number n, and your program should build the list of values taken by sucessive iteration of the algorithm, and print it out. For example, if 7 is input your program should print the list 
> 
> 
> 
> [7,22,11,34,17,52,26,13,40,20,10,5,16,8,4,2,1]
> 
> 
> 
> Demonstrate your program output for an input value consisting of the number formed adding 10 to the last digit of your student id. (13006517)"
> 
> 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated

I'm pretty sure this is not a group for helping people  cheat on their school coursework.

You,the one trying to supposedly help him couldn't even write a single line of code. How is that "helping"?

Kindly come back when u've done some real work and you are stuck.

I hope I've been of "help" to you and your friend.

thanks

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#60024

bradleybooth12345@gmail.com via python.org asks:
> A Friend is doing maths in University and has had some
> coursework to do with python.
>
> The question is
>
> "Write a program that calculates how many positive integers
> less than N are not divisible by 2,3 or 5. The user should be
> prompted to supply the Number N. Demonstrate your program
> output when the input N is your student id. (13006517)
>
> "The collatz process is as follows. Take a positive integer n
> greater than 1. while n is greater than 1 repeat the following;
> if N is even halve it and if N is odd multiply it by 3 and add
> 1. The (Unsolved) collatz conjecture is that this process
> always terminates.
>
> The user should be prompted to supply the number n, and your
> program should build the list of values taken by sucessive
> iteration of the algorithm, and print it out. For example, if 7
> is input your program should print the list
>
> [7,22,11,34,17,52,26,13,40,20,10,5,16,8,4,2,1]
>
> Demonstrate your program output for an input value consisting
> of the number formed adding 10 to the last digit of your
> student id. (13006517)"
>
> Any help would be appreciated

What has A Friend written so far? Where are you stuck?

-- 
Neil Cerutti

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM,  <bradleybooth12345@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A Friend is doing maths in University and has had some coursework to do with python.
>
> The question is
>
> "Write a program that calculates how many positive integers less than N are not divisible by 2,3 or 5. The user should be prompted to supply the Number N. Demonstrate your program output when the input N is your student id. (13006517)
>
> "The collatz process is as follows. Take a positive integer n greater than 1. while n is greater than 1 repeat the following; if N is even halve it and if N is odd multiply it by 3 and add 1. The (Unsolved) collatz conjecture is that this process always terminates.
>
> The user should be prompted to supply the number n, and your program should build the list of values taken by sucessive iteration of the algorithm, and print it out. For example, if 7 is input your program should print the list
>
> [7,22,11,34,17,52,26,13,40,20,10,5,16,8,4,2,1]
>
> Demonstrate your program output for an input value consisting of the number formed adding 10 to the last digit of your student id. (13006517)"
>
> Any help would be appreciated
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Neil Cerutti <mr.cerutti+python@gmail.com>

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#60026

On 11/19/2013 10:40 AM, bradleybooth12345@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A Friend is doing maths in University and has had some coursework to do with python.
>
> The question is
>
> "Write a program that calculates how many positive integers less than N are not divisible by 2,3 or 5. The user should be prompted to supply the Number N. Demonstrate your program output when the input N is your student id. (13006517)
>
> "The collatz process is as follows. Take a positive integer n greater than 1. while n is greater than 1 repeat the following; if N is even halve it and if N is odd multiply it by 3 and add 1. The (Unsolved) collatz conjecture is that this process always terminates.
>
> The user should be prompted to supply the number n, and your program should build the list of values taken by sucessive iteration of the algorithm, and print it out. For example, if 7 is input your program should print the list
>
> [7,22,11,34,17,52,26,13,40,20,10,5,16,8,4,2,1]
>
> Demonstrate your program output for an input value consisting of the number formed adding 10 to the last digit of your student id. (13006517)"
>
> Any help would be appreciated

What sort of help are you requesting?  We're not in the habit of writing 
student assignments for them because they will learn nothing from such 
an effort.
Your friend should read the book/lecture-notes/whatever, and make an 
attempt on the assignment.  If he gets stuck, he may ask a specific 
Python question.  I'm sure lots of help will follow.

As a side note, these are extremely simple beginner problems, each 
requiring only a few lines of code.  Any programming class that assigned 
these must have included some lectures on the basics of programming.   
That's where he should start.

Gary Herron

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#60029

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 6:40:18 PM UTC, bradleyb...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> A Friend is doing maths in University and has had some coursework to do with python.
> 
> 
> 
> The question is 
> 
> 
> 
> "Write a program that calculates how many positive integers less than N are not divisible by 2,3 or 5. The user should be prompted to supply the Number N. Demonstrate your program output when the input N is your student id. (13006517)
> 
> 
> 
> "The collatz process is as follows. Take a positive integer n greater than 1. while n is greater than 1 repeat the following; if N is even halve it and if N is odd multiply it by 3 and add 1. The (Unsolved) collatz conjecture is that this process always terminates.
> 
> 
> 
> The user should be prompted to supply the number n, and your program should build the list of values taken by sucessive iteration of the algorithm, and print it out. For example, if 7 is input your program should print the list 
> 
> 
> 
> [7,22,11,34,17,52,26,13,40,20,10,5,16,8,4,2,1]
> 
> 
> 
> Demonstrate your program output for an input value consisting of the number formed adding 10 to the last digit of your student id. (13006517)"
> 
> 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated

Think they just needed a starting point really to be honest as they can't get there head round it.

That was all. Badly worded this, wasn't looking for someone to do it all for him apologies

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#60030

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 11:27:08 -0800, bradleybooth12345 wrote:

> On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 6:40:18 PM UTC, bradleyb...@gmail.com
> wrote:

>> "Write a program that calculates how many positive integers less than N
>> are not divisible by 2,3 or 5.

>> "The collatz process .....

>> Any help would be appreciated

> Think they just needed a starting point really to be honest as they
> can't get there head round it.

First of all there seems to be two problems, not 1.

Here are some steps for each of the calculations. Any resemblance of 
these steps to actual program code is due to my not bothering to 
obfuscate the statement and function names more than I did.

1) Find all the numbers less than n that are not divisible by a, b, or c.

ask the user for x;
assign the value 0 to some other variable i;
while i is not greater than than x do the following [
if i is not divisible by a and i is not divisible by b and i is not 
divisible by c then display i to the user;
add 1 to i;
]

2) Find the collatz sequence for x.

ask the user for initial x;
while x is not 1 {
if x is divisible by 2 [ new x = perform even number collatz math on x; ]
otherwise [ new x = perform odd number collatz math on x; ]
display new x to the user;
}

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com

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#60072

Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> wrote:

> 1) Find all the numbers less than n that are not divisible by a, b, or c.
> 
> ask the user for x;
> assign the value 0 to some other variable i;
> while i is not greater than than x do the following [
> if i is not divisible by a and i is not divisible by b and i is not 
> divisible by c then display i to the user;
> add 1 to i;
> ]
> 
The question didn't ask to find all the numbers, it asked to count how many 
there are. Also even if you change this to count instead of print, it could 
be very inefficient for large values of x.

If x is greater than a*b*c, find how many numbers up to a*b*c are not 
divisible by a, b, or c. (Depending on your interpretation of the English 
language for 2, 3, 5 this is either 8 or 1, you could check whether the 
system is set to Australian English to determine the correct action here.) 
You may then store these numbers in a list for easy reference.

Now the answer you want is the length of that list times the integer part 
of x divided by a*b*c plus the number of values in the list that are less 
than the remainder you get when dividing x by a*b*c.

If x is less than a*b*c then just find how many numbers up to x are not 
divisible by a, b, or c, which would be a case of re-using some of the 
above code.

For extra credit, calculate and use the least common multiple of a,b and c 
instead of just using their product.

-- 
Duncan Booth 

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#60264

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 11:38:14 +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:

> Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> wrote:

>> 1) Find all the numbers less than n that are not divisible by a, b, or
>> c.

>> ask the user for x;
>> assign the value 0 to some other variable i;
>> while i is not greater than than x do the following [
>> if i is not divisible by a and i is not divisible by b and i is not
>> divisible by c then display i to the user;
>> add 1 to i;
>> ]

> The question didn't ask to find all the numbers, it asked to count how
> many there are. ....

My post was intended as a demonstration of how you can convert a problem 
into a sequence of steps that can then be programmed into a computer. Any 
resemblance to the posted question may have been accidental.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com

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#60040

> Think they just needed a starting point really to be honest as they can't get there head round it.

Then the problem is that your friend doesn't understand one or more of
the words being used.  This is s necessary prerequisite for making an
algorithm from a text description.  Perhaps they don't know what it
means to be "divisible".

-- 
MarkJ
Tacoma, Washington

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#60042

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:40:18 -0800, bradleybooth12345 wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> A Friend is doing maths in University and has had some coursework to do
> with python.
> 
> The question is
> 
> "Write a program that calculates how many positive integers less than N
> are not divisible by 2,3 or 5. The user should be prompted to supply the
> Number N. Demonstrate your program output when the input N is your
> student id. (13006517)


Have your friend start by writing down how she or he would solve this 
problem by hand. I'll get you started by solving the problem for 7.

Positive integers less than 23 are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. So let's start 
checking them for divisors:

- 1 is not divisible by 2, 3 or 5, so we count one number.
- 2 is divisible by 2, but not by 3 or 5, so we count two numbers.
- 3 is not divisible by 2, so we count three numbers.
- 4 is divisible by 2, but not 3 or 5, so we count four numbers
- 5 is not divisible by 2, so we count five numbers.
- 6 is divisible by 2 and 3, but not by 5, so we count six numbers.

And the answer is: 6.

Now that you know what you yourself would do to solve this problem, the 
next step is to write it in terms that a computer can understand. A few 
hints:

1) You can check divisibility by using the % operator, which returns the 
remainder after division. So 36 % 6 gives 0, which means that 36 is 
divisible by 6. 37 % 6 gives 1, which means 37 is not divisible by 6.

2) You can use "for i in range(1, N)" to generate the positive integers 
less than N.

3) You can use the "or" operator to efficiently check multiple 
conditions. For example, this line of code:

if (a % 2) or (a > 16):

checks whether a number a is either an odd number or larger than sixteen, 
and if so runs the indented block of code following (not shown).

4) You can prompt the user for a value using the input (Python 3) or 
raw_input (Python 2) function. For example, using Python 2:

result = raw_input("Enter a number between 3 and 12: ")

lets the user type in anything in response. That result will be a string, 
to convert it to a number:

result = int(result)

5) You can create a variable and initialise it to some value like this:

count = 0

creates a variable called "count", set to the value 0. You can then add 
one to it like this:

count = count + 1

or if you prefer:

count += 1

Either way adds one to count.

I expect that the above should be enough to get your friend started and 
possibly even finished. If she/he gets stuck, come back with some code 
and specific questions.

Good luck!



-- 
Steven

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#60049

On 20 Nov 2013 00:17:23 GMT, Steven D'Aprano 
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> problem by hand. I'll get you started by solving the problem for 7.




> Positive integers less than 23 are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. So let's start 
> checking them for divisors:

Where did 23 come from?


> - 1 is not divisible by 2, 3 or 5, so we count one number.
> - 2 is divisible by 2, but not by 3 or 5, so we count two numbers.

2 doesn't count because it's divisible by 2. 

> - 3 is not divisible by 2, so we count three numbers.

3 doesn't count because it's divisible by 3

> - 4 is divisible by 2, but not 3 or 5, so we count four numbers

And so on.

> - 5 is not divisible by 2, so we count five numbers.
> - 6 is divisible by 2 and 3, but not by 5, so we count six numbers.


I count 1, not 6



> And the answer is: 6.

-- 
DaveA

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#60051

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:10:55 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:

> On 20 Nov 2013 00:17:23 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>> problem by hand. I'll get you started by solving the problem for 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Positive integers less than 23 are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. So let's start
>> checking them for divisors:
> 
> Where did 23 come from?

/head-desk

Sorry, first draft of this post was going to go up to 23.



>> - 1 is not divisible by 2, 3 or 5, so we count one number. - 2 is
>> divisible by 2, but not by 3 or 5, so we count two numbers.
> 
> 2 doesn't count because it's divisible by 2.

2 does count because it isn't divisible by 3. The question states, 
"[count] how many positive integers less than N are not divisible by 2,3 
or 5". Two is not divisible by 3, so "not divisible by 2,3 or 5" is true, 
so two gets counted.

The first number which is divisible by *all* of 2, 3 and 5 (i.e. fails 
the test, and therefore doesn't get counted) is 30. The next few that 
fail the test are 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, ... 
Remember, these are the numbers which should not be counted.


> I count 1, not 6

Out of curiosity, which number did you count?



-- 
Steven

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#60054

On 20 Nov 2013 03:52:10 GMT, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> 
wrote:
> 2 does count because it isn't divisible by 3. The question states, 
> "[count] how many positive integers less than N are not divisible 
by 2,3 
> or 5". Two is not divisible by 3, so "not divisible by 2,3 or 5" is 
true, 
> so two gets counted.

> The first number which is divisible by *all* of 2, 3 and 5 (i.e. 
fails 
> the test, and therefore doesn't get counted) is 30. The next few 
that 
> fail the test are 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, ... 
> Remember, these are the numbers which should not be counted.

> > I count 1, not 6

> Out of curiosity, which number did you count?

1 of course. It's the only one that's not divisible by any of the 
factors.

Apparently we disagree about precedence and associativity in English. 
I believe the not applies to the result of (divisible by 2, 3, or 5), 
so I'd count 1, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23. The first nonprime would be 
49.

If I were trying to get the series you describe, I'd phrase it as 
  "Not divisible by 2, and not divisible by 3, and not divisible by 5"

-- 
DaveA

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#60065

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:54:28 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:

> On 20 Nov 2013 03:52:10 GMT, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>
> wrote:
>> 2 does count because it isn't divisible by 3. The question states,
>> "[count] how many positive integers less than N are not divisible
> by 2,3
>> or 5". Two is not divisible by 3, so "not divisible by 2,3 or 5" is
> true,
>> so two gets counted.
> 
>> The first number which is divisible by *all* of 2, 3 and 5 (i.e.
> fails
>> the test, and therefore doesn't get counted) is 30. The next few
> that
>> fail the test are 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, ...
>> Remember, these are the numbers which should not be counted.
> 
>> > I count 1, not 6
> 
>> Out of curiosity, which number did you count?
> 
> 1 of course. It's the only one that's not divisible by any of the
> factors.
> 
> Apparently we disagree about precedence and associativity in English.
> I believe the not applies to the result of (divisible by 2, 3, or 5),
> so I'd count 1, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23. The first nonprime would be 49.
> 
> If I were trying to get the series you describe, I'd phrase it as
>   "Not divisible by 2, and not divisible by 3, and not divisible by 5"

This ambiguity is a great example of why teachers (and enayone else 
responsible for specifying a programming project) should take greater 
care when specifying tasks.
if it is to late to ask for clarification (the correct step in a real 
world case) I suggest you write 2 programs 1 for each interpretation, it 
will be good for your personal learning even if the teacher does not give 
any extra credit.




-- 
I am practicing a fine point of ethics.  It is acceptable to shoot back.
It is not acceptable to shoot first.
        -- Zed Pobre

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#60076

On 20/11/2013 09:29, Alister wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:54:28 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>> On 20 Nov 2013 03:52:10 GMT, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>
>> wrote:
>>> 2 does count because it isn't divisible by 3. The question states,
>>> "[count] how many positive integers less than N are not divisible
>> by 2,3
>>> or 5". Two is not divisible by 3, so "not divisible by 2,3 or 5" is
>> true,
>>> so two gets counted.
>>
>>> The first number which is divisible by *all* of 2, 3 and 5 (i.e.
>> fails
>>> the test, and therefore doesn't get counted) is 30. The next few
>> that
>>> fail the test are 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, ...
>>> Remember, these are the numbers which should not be counted.
>>
>>>> I count 1, not 6
>>
>>> Out of curiosity, which number did you count?
>>
>> 1 of course. It's the only one that's not divisible by any of the
>> factors.
>>
>> Apparently we disagree about precedence and associativity in English.
>> I believe the not applies to the result of (divisible by 2, 3, or 5),
>> so I'd count 1, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23. The first nonprime would be 49.
>>
>> If I were trying to get the series you describe, I'd phrase it as
>>    "Not divisible by 2, and not divisible by 3, and not divisible by 5"
>
> This ambiguity is a great example of why teachers (and enayone else
> responsible for specifying a programming project) should take greater
> care when specifying tasks.
> if it is to late to ask for clarification (the correct step in a real
> world case) I suggest you write 2 programs 1 for each interpretation, it
> will be good for your personal learning even if the teacher does not give
> any extra credit.
>

Ambiguity is the reason that some of the most expensive language lessons 
in the world are at places like Sandhurst and West Point.  Giving 
crystal clear orders, whether verbally or in writing, is considered 
quite important in the military.

By the way, this is double posted and there were four identical messages 
from you yesterday, finger trouble or what? :)

-- 
Python is the second best programming language in the world.
But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer

Mark Lawrence

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#60084

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:57:30 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 20/11/2013 09:29, Alister wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:54:28 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>>> On 20 Nov 2013 03:52:10 GMT, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 2 does count because it isn't divisible by 3. The question states,
>>>> "[count] how many positive integers less than N are not divisible
>>> by 2,3
>>>> or 5". Two is not divisible by 3, so "not divisible by 2,3 or 5" is
>>> true,
>>>> so two gets counted.
>>>
>>>> The first number which is divisible by *all* of 2, 3 and 5 (i.e.
>>> fails
>>>> the test, and therefore doesn't get counted) is 30. The next few
>>> that
>>>> fail the test are 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, ...
>>>> Remember, these are the numbers which should not be counted.
>>>
>>>>> I count 1, not 6
>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity, which number did you count?
>>>
>>> 1 of course. It's the only one that's not divisible by any of the
>>> factors.
>>>
>>> Apparently we disagree about precedence and associativity in English.
>>> I believe the not applies to the result of (divisible by 2, 3, or 5),
>>> so I'd count 1, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23. The first nonprime would be 49.
>>>
>>> If I were trying to get the series you describe, I'd phrase it as
>>>    "Not divisible by 2, and not divisible by 3, and not divisible by
>>>    5"
>>
>> This ambiguity is a great example of why teachers (and enayone else
>> responsible for specifying a programming project) should take greater
>> care when specifying tasks.
>> if it is to late to ask for clarification (the correct step in a real
>> world case) I suggest you write 2 programs 1 for each interpretation,
>> it will be good for your personal learning even if the teacher does not
>> give any extra credit.
>>
>>
> Ambiguity is the reason that some of the most expensive language lessons
> in the world are at places like Sandhurst and West Point.  Giving
> crystal clear orders, whether verbally or in writing, is considered
> quite important in the military.
> 
> By the way, this is double posted and there were four identical messages
> from you yesterday, finger trouble or what? :)

I don't think the problem is at my end. I am only sending once to the 
best of my knowledge
(using Pan newsreader to Comp.lang.python)




-- 
Thou shalt not put policy into the kernel.

	- Al Viro on linux-kernel

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#60143

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:51:29 GMT, Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com>
declaimed the following:


>
>I don't think the problem is at my end. I am only sending once to the 
>best of my knowledge
>(using Pan newsreader to Comp.lang.python)

	Does Pan have an option to generate its own Message-ID header?

	Headers seem to indicate multiple injections somewhere

Original-Path:
news.xs4all.nl!newsspool.news.xs4all.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!feeder.erje.net!us.feeder.erje.net!news.ripco.com!news.glorb.com!peer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!peer03.am1!peering.am1!npeersf04.am4!fx04.am4.POSTED!not-for-mail
vs
Original-Path:
news.xs4all.nl!newsspool.news.xs4all.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!news.glorb.com!peer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!peer03.am1!peering.am1!npeersf04.am4!fx07.am4.POSTED!not-for-mail


Message-ID: <R%3ju.196190$jf3.31493@fx04.am4>
vs
Message-ID: <n%3ju.115242$qC.85556@fx07.am4>

fx04.am4 vs fx07.am4
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#60164

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> writes:

> 	Does Pan have an option to generate its own Message-ID header?
>
> 	Headers seem to indicate multiple injections somewhere

Perhaps Pan doesn't? Someone else had multipostings in the Android group
but he was posting via aioe.

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#60086

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:57:30 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 20/11/2013 09:29, Alister wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:54:28 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>>> On 20 Nov 2013 03:52:10 GMT, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 2 does count because it isn't divisible by 3. The question states,
>>>> "[count] how many positive integers less than N are not divisible
>>> by 2,3
>>>> or 5". Two is not divisible by 3, so "not divisible by 2,3 or 5" is
>>> true,
>>>> so two gets counted.
>>>
>>>> The first number which is divisible by *all* of 2, 3 and 5 (i.e.
>>> fails
>>>> the test, and therefore doesn't get counted) is 30. The next few
>>> that
>>>> fail the test are 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, ...
>>>> Remember, these are the numbers which should not be counted.
>>>
>>>>> I count 1, not 6
>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity, which number did you count?
>>>
>>> 1 of course. It's the only one that's not divisible by any of the
>>> factors.
>>>
>>> Apparently we disagree about precedence and associativity in English.
>>> I believe the not applies to the result of (divisible by 2, 3, or 5),
>>> so I'd count 1, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23. The first nonprime would be 49.
>>>
>>> If I were trying to get the series you describe, I'd phrase it as
>>>    "Not divisible by 2, and not divisible by 3, and not divisible by
>>>    5"
>>
>> This ambiguity is a great example of why teachers (and enayone else
>> responsible for specifying a programming project) should take greater
>> care when specifying tasks.
>> if it is to late to ask for clarification (the correct step in a real
>> world case) I suggest you write 2 programs 1 for each interpretation,
>> it will be good for your personal learning even if the teacher does not
>> give any extra credit.
>>
>>
> Ambiguity is the reason that some of the most expensive language lessons
> in the world are at places like Sandhurst and West Point.  Giving
> crystal clear orders, whether verbally or in writing, is considered
> quite important in the military.
> 
> By the way, this is double posted and there were four identical messages
> from you yesterday, finger trouble or what? :)

I don't think the problem is at my end. I am only sending once to the 
best of my knowledge
(using Pan newsreader to Comp.lang.python)




-- 
Thou shalt not put policy into the kernel.

	- Al Viro on linux-kernel

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#60089

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:57:30 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> On 20/11/2013 09:29, Alister wrote:
>>> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:54:28 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:
>> By the way, this is double posted and there were four identical messages
>> from you yesterday, finger trouble or what? :)
>
> I don't think the problem is at my end. I am only sending once to the
> best of my knowledge
> (using Pan newsreader to Comp.lang.python)

Exactly four again.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-November/660769.html
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-November/660770.html
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-November/660771.html
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-November/660772.html

Might be a problem with the mail<->news gateway, or might be that
something's sending through by multiple routes for redundancy. The
timestamps differ, not sure if that helps track it down.

ChrisA

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