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Groups > comp.lang.python > #46645 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-05-31 22:30 -0700 |
| Last post | 2013-06-04 14:58 +0300 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 126 — 21 participants |
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Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 22:30 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-01 15:38 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-01 00:49 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-01 17:56 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-01 01:31 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2013-06-01 11:03 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-01 02:19 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Paul Kölle <paul@subsignal.org> - 2013-06-02 13:51 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2013-06-03 18:20 +0300
RE: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-06-04 01:13 +0300
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-03 17:23 -0600
RE: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-06-04 02:33 +0300
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-03 22:45 -0600
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 17:51 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 03:12 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 03:17 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Benjamin Schollnick <benjamin@schollnick.net> - 2013-06-04 06:21 -0400
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 03:56 -0700
RE: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-06-04 14:04 +0300
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 04:09 -0700
RE: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-06-04 14:27 +0300
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 04:36 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 04:38 -0700
RE: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-06-04 14:42 +0300
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 04:48 -0700
RE: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-06-04 15:11 +0300
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 05:54 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-04 20:41 -0400
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 05:57 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 23:10 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 06:17 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 00:33 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 07:40 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-04 15:49 +0100
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 17:06 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 01:11 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 11:29 -0400
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 10:02 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 03:09 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 10:12 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 08:12 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 20:55 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 21:34 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 21:40 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 21:59 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 22:11 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 22:23 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 22:58 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 17:01 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 21:35 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 18:09 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 01:26 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 18:41 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 01:53 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 01:58 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 19:05 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 02:14 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 19:27 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 02:32 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 19:41 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 02:46 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 02:49 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 03:32 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-05 14:23 +0100
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-06 03:57 +0000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 21:08 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-05 11:04 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 02:19 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 19:31 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 02:37 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 19:48 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 02:52 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 20:12 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 03:30 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-05 12:37 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-05 12:39 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 04:07 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 04:11 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-05 13:14 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 04:19 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-05 13:37 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 02:33 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 10:02 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 03:16 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 10:29 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 03:47 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 11:08 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 04:16 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 11:22 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 11:34 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 04:46 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 11:53 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 14:52 -0400
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 11:58 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 05:13 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 12:18 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 11:55 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 12:03 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 05:03 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 15:29 -0400
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 04:37 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-05 19:19 -0400
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-05 17:57 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-06-05 21:02 -0500
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-06 11:03 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 02:24 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 12:35 -0400
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 10:07 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-05 14:25 +0100
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 19:19 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-05 11:29 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 02:33 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-05 11:55 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 03:21 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-05 12:33 +0200
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 01:59 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 02:06 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-05 14:16 +0100
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 07:35 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 17:46 +0300
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 07:56 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 02:37 +1000
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-05 10:05 -0700
Re: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 03:19 +1000
RE: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-06-04 16:13 +0300
RE: Apache and suexec issue that wont let me run my python script Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-06-04 14:58 +0300
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| From | Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 13:37 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2723.1370432255.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #47071 |
Am 05.06.2013 13:19, schrieb Νικόλαος Κούρας: > Is there some logging utility i can use next time iam offering root access to someone(if i do it) or perhaps logging a normal's account activity? Short answer: Not for root, no. Long answer: as I've already said: root can change file contents, or more explicitly _any_ system state, and (s)he can do that at will, and as such you can't ever be sure that what any form of logging is telling you will be the "truth" in some form or another if you've had a malicious root user on your system. Now: think again why it's such a plain stupid and incredibly bad idea to hand out root credentials to people you shouldn't trust, and why people (like me) keep telling you that you're naive and a fool to even consider handing out root logins. PS: the same is true for normal logins. You don't know whether some form of privilege escalation exists on your system, so even by handing out supposedly safe non-root accounts, your installation might get compromised due to insecure SUID software or due to privilege escalation bugs in the kernel. -- --- Heiko.
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-06 02:33 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2743.1370450038.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #47071 |
On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 2:14:34 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Heiko Wundram έγραψε: >> Am 05.06.2013 13:07, schrieb οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½ οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½: >> >> >Btw, since history doesnt show me his history comamnds when he logged in >> >from .au(why not really?), how can i tell what exactly did he do when he >> >logged on to the server? > >> As root has full access to your system (i.e., can change file contents >> and system state at will), and you gave him root access: you can't. And >> he made sure to remove things such as .bash_history and the syslog >> contents, I guess. At least that's what I'd have done to prove a point. In fact, I didn't even bother fiddling with syslog. All I did was .bash_history. Of course, I wasn't worried about you getting my IP addresses (one of them is public anyway, and the other isn't mine any longer than I'm using it), and nothing I did there was sufficiently serious to be worth hiding, but I just did the history so I could point out how easy this is. > I see. Thanks. > Is there some logging utility i can use next time iam offering root access to someone(if i do it) or perhaps logging a normal's account activity? You could log a normal user fairly easily, because root trumps normal users. To log root access, there are a few options: 1) Don't actually give unrestricted roots, but require the use of sudo, which logs. Not 100% perfect unless you actually restrict the commands that can be executed, but it'd at least let you have some idea that things were tampered with. 2) Provide a special bouncer. This is a little complex to describe, so bear with me. Imagine you have *two* computers, WebHost and Bouncer. You want to give root access to WebHost, so you invite someone to ssh to webroot@bouncer - the shell of that user establishes a secondary connection to root@webhost and passes everything on, but also logs it. Since *no* access to Bouncer has been granted, the logs can't be tampered with. This can be complicated to set up and secure, but it's certainly possible. However, I think it is beyond your ability, at least at the moment. 3) Provide a hacked-up root shell that logs to a network location, and disable all other shell usage. Imperfect but would probably work. 4) Require that all root shell access be done through screen/tmux, and monitor it. You can probably think of a few others, too. ChrisA
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| From | Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 10:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <83de920f-dea8-49ad-9f6e-e25d3b2d8446@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #47107 |
Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 7:33:50 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Chris Angelico έγραψε: > On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 2:14:34 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Heiko Wundram έγραψε: > > >> Am 05.06.2013 13:07, schrieb οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½ οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½οΏ½: > > >> > > >> >Btw, since history doesnt show me his history comamnds when he logged in > > >> >from .au(why not really?), how can i tell what exactly did he do when he > > >> >logged on to the server? > > > > > >> As root has full access to your system (i.e., can change file contents > >> and system state at will), and you gave him root access: you can't. And > >> he made sure to remove things such as .bash_history and the syslog > >> contents, I guess. At least that's what I'd have done to prove a point. > In fact, I didn't even bother fiddling with syslog. All I did was > .bash_history. Of course, I wasn't worried about you getting my IP > addresses (one of them is public anyway, and the other isn't mine any > longer than I'm using it), and nothing I did there was sufficiently > serious to be worth hiding, but I just did the history so I could > point out how easy this is. So, by executing .bash_history commands issued are cleared. okey. What abiut 'syslog' that Heiko mentioned. Since you didnt fiddle with syslog can the latter show me what commands have been executed, files opened, commands given, services started-stopped etc? > and nothing I did there was sufficiently serious to be worth hiding. Actually i believ you, because if you had malice in mind you could 'rm -rf /' or deface frontpages which you didnt do. But is there a way for me to see what commands have been issued? syslog perhaps as ia sk above? Since you didn't hurm the system why the need of wipe clean bash's history?
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-06 03:16 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2748.1370452608.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #47113 |
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 3:02 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 7:33:50 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Chris Angelico έγραψε: >> In fact, I didn't even bother fiddling with syslog. All I did was >> .bash_history. Of course, I wasn't worried about you getting my IP >> addresses (one of them is public anyway, and the other isn't mine any >> longer than I'm using it), and nothing I did there was sufficiently >> serious to be worth hiding, but I just did the history so I could >> point out how easy this is. > > So, by executing .bash_history commands issued are cleared. okey. > What abiut 'syslog' that Heiko mentioned. Since you didnt fiddle with syslog can the latter show me what commands have been executed, files opened, commands given, services started-stopped etc? Poke around in /var/log - I didn't tamper with anything there, so you may well find log entries. But I don't know for sure what I did and what I didn't do. >> and nothing I did there was sufficiently serious to be worth hiding. > > Actually i believ you, because if you had malice in mind you could 'rm -rf /' or deface frontpages which you didnt do. > > But is there a way for me to see what commands have been issued? syslog perhaps as ia sk above? > Since you didn't hurm the system why the need of wipe clean bash's history? There won't be a full list of all commands, but you may find some hints. And why wipe it? Just to show how easily it could be done. Imagine if I'd: 1) Created a new user, with a home directory of /etc 2) Made a setuid root binary that gives me a shell 3) Removed all logfile traces of having done so I could then *retain full access* even after you change the root password. And you would not know what I'd done, if I do the logfile wipes correctly. You might see some hint (eg that logs were rotated prematurely), but it'd be extremely hard to figure out what I did. ChrisA
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| From | Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 10:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <501f3d4e-bbe3-45e8-afce-96cedabe2bef@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #47116 |
Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 8:16:46 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Chris Angelico έγραψε: > On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 3:02 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 7:33:50 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Chris Angelico έγραψε: > > >> In fact, I didn't even bother fiddling with syslog. All I did was > > >> .bash_history. Of course, I wasn't worried about you getting my IP > > >> addresses (one of them is public anyway, and the other isn't mine any > > >> longer than I'm using it), and nothing I did there was sufficiently > > >> serious to be worth hiding, but I just did the history so I could > > >> point out how easy this is. > > > > > > So, by executing .bash_history commands issued are cleared. okey. > > > What abiut 'syslog' that Heiko mentioned. Since you didnt fiddle with syslog can the latter show me what commands have been executed, files opened, commands given, services started-stopped etc? > > > > Poke around in /var/log - I didn't tamper with anything there, so you > > may well find log entries. But I don't know for sure what I did and > > what I didn't do. > > > > >> and nothing I did there was sufficiently serious to be worth hiding. > > > > > > Actually i believ you, because if you had malice in mind you could 'rm -rf /' or deface frontpages which you didnt do. > > > > > > But is there a way for me to see what commands have been issued? syslog perhaps as ia sk above? > > > Since you didn't hurm the system why the need of wipe clean bash's history? > > > > There won't be a full list of all commands, but you may find some > > hints. And why wipe it? Just to show how easily it could be done. > > Imagine if I'd: > > > > 1) Created a new user, with a home directory of /etc > > 2) Made a setuid root binary that gives me a shell > > 3) Removed all logfile traces of having done so > > > > I could then *retain full access* even after you change the root > > password. And you would not know what I'd done, if I do the logfile > > wipes correctly. You might see some hint (eg that logs were rotated > > prematurely), but it'd be extremely hard to figure out what I did. Forensics is not my strong point, currently i'm learning linux hence i only have basic knowledge just to get some basic stuff up and running. Now about what you did to me. I wanted to tell you that I (and I am sure there are other people too) don't agree with what you did. I think it was pretty rotten -- you told me it was a bad idea to give out the root password and that was as far as you should have gone, you had no right to "prove" it by screwing with my system. In the US there is a law called the DMCA which I think would make what you did illegal, even though i have you a password, because i clearly gave you access to help me fix a problem, not to do what you did. Of course US law doesn't help in this case since you i live in Greece and you live in Australia... I decided a long time ago the certain people on the Python list were assholes, you leading the list followed by alex23, Mark Lawrence and several more. Your post about how you are a good Christian just confirms to me that you aren't -- people who brag about how moral they are are usually immoral. And besides the major assholes, there are lots of people there that will just agree with prevailing opinion without thinking for themselves. I still maintain my belief that most people are good and want to help rather than be destructive(which to your defense you weren't entirely. The mails you sent to my few customers though really pissed me off). And of course, i have no idea, if you ahve installed some kind of a backdoor utility that will grant you shell access via ssh to my system. I want to convince myself that you haven't done so.
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-06 03:47 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2750.1370454461.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #47118 |
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > Now about what you did to me. I wanted to tell you that I (and I am sure there are other people too) don't agree with what you did. I think it was pretty rotten -- you told me it was a bad idea to give out the root password and that was as far as you should have gone, you had no right to "prove" it by screwing with my system. > > In the US there is a law called the DMCA which I think would make what > you did illegal, even though i have you a password, because i > clearly gave you access to help me fix a problem, not to do what you > did. Of course US law doesn't help in this case since you i live in Greece and you live in Australia... IANAL, but I don't think the DMCA has anything to do with this. (That is to say, I don't think it would even if everything were under US jurisdiction, which as you say isn't the case anyway.) What I did is no more illegal than you lending your car keys to a stranger with the request that he lock your door for you, and him then leafing through the contents of your car and telling your spouse what he found. If that causes your marriage to break up, the fault was with you for having something in your car that would break up your marriage, and for letting a stranger poke around in there. > I still maintain my belief that most people are good and want to help > rather than be destructive(which to your defense you weren't entirely. The mails you sent to my few customers though really pissed me off). The mails to your customers stop you from pretending to them that you know what you're doing. That's all. Now, you may be able to come back from this by making a public change of policy (you so far have a declared stance that you would give out the root password to someone else in future) and apologizing profusely to your customers, but if you can't, that is your problem and not mine. I was programming computers for eighteen years before I got a job doing it. Getting money for hosting people's web sites is something that you should see as a privilege for people who can demonstrably provide this service safely, and should not be something you strive for while you're learning the basics of Linux. > And of course, i have no idea, if you ahve installed some kind of a backdoor utility that will grant you shell access via ssh to my system. > I want to convince myself that you haven't done so. I can help with that convincing. No, I did not install any sort of backdoor. There is no way you can prove that statement, but you have my promise and pledge that your system is safe from me. All I did was: 1) Change the root password, storing the new one in a way that you could find it 2) Create the cookie file as proof of what I could do 3) Collect email addresses from /home/*/.contactemail 4) Inspect the index.html files in a few directories as a means of locating the web sites concerned 5) 'mv .bash_history .bash_history_old', and later mv it back There is no ongoing access, and now that you've changed the root password (btw, I hope you weren't silly enough to change it to the same password you emailed me), the system is under your control again. But you cannot be sure that the *other* people you've given root access to didn't do the same. ChrisA
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| From | Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 11:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <aee62c82-8498-4d57-8e13-ea8564fdca55@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #47122 |
Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 8:47:38 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Chris Angelico έγραψε: > On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Now about what you did to me. I wanted to tell you that I (and I am sure there are other people too) don't agree with what you did. I think it was pretty rotten -- you told me it was a bad idea to give out the root password and that was as far as you should have gone, you had no right to "prove" it by screwing with my system. > > > > > > In the US there is a law called the DMCA which I think would make what > > > you did illegal, even though i have you a password, because i > > > clearly gave you access to help me fix a problem, not to do what you > > > did. Of course US law doesn't help in this case since you i live in Greece and you live in Australia... > > > > IANAL, but I don't think the DMCA has anything to do with this. (That > > is to say, I don't think it would even if everything were under US > > jurisdiction, which as you say isn't the case anyway.) What I did is > > no more illegal than you lending your car keys to a stranger with the > > request that he lock your door for you, and him then leafing through > > the contents of your car and telling your spouse what he found. If > > that causes your marriage to break up, the fault was with you for > > having something in your car that would break up your marriage, and > > for letting a stranger poke around in there. > > > > > I still maintain my belief that most people are good and want to help > > > rather than be destructive(which to your defense you weren't entirely. The mails you sent to my few customers though really pissed me off). > > > > The mails to your customers stop you from pretending to them that you > > know what you're doing. That's all. Now, you may be able to come back > > from this by making a public change of policy (you so far have a > > declared stance that you would give out the root password to someone > > else in future) and apologizing profusely to your customers, but if > > you can't, that is your problem and not mine. > > > > I was programming computers for eighteen years before I got a job > > doing it. Getting money for hosting people's web sites is something > > that you should see as a privilege for people who can demonstrably > > provide this service safely, and should not be something you strive > > for while you're learning the basics of Linux. > > > > > And of course, i have no idea, if you ahve installed some kind of a backdoor utility that will grant you shell access via ssh to my system. > > > I want to convince myself that you haven't done so. > > > > I can help with that convincing. No, I did not install any sort of > > backdoor. There is no way you can prove that statement, but you have > > my promise and pledge that your system is safe from me. All I did was: > > > > 1) Change the root password, storing the new one in a way that you could find it > > 2) Create the cookie file as proof of what I could do > > 3) Collect email addresses from /home/*/.contactemail > > 4) Inspect the index.html files in a few directories as a means of > > locating the web sites concerned > > 5) 'mv .bash_history .bash_history_old', and later mv it back > > > > There is no ongoing access, and now that you've changed the root > > password (btw, I hope you weren't silly enough to change it to the > > same password you emailed me), the system is under your control again. > > But you cannot be sure that the *other* people you've given root > > access to didn't do the same. Every time i granted access to other folks when jobs done i alwaws 'passwd' as root to avoid unwanted access. All customers are also my friends and they like me and trust me. I also fix their computers too and use "TeamViewer" many times to help them from home. Still, all of your doing could be avoided if isntead of fiddlign with my clients, you would actually try to provide a helping had. Anyway, i should'n have given root access to you, i was a bit worried doing so, but i was also under stress of also correcting this damn encoding issue and i wanted to think you would be the one that finally help solving it. I was wrong. But no matter what you say i won't lose my beleif hat if for example i have given access to Steven, things could have turn into a positive solution. You shouldnt have gone "that far", just to prove a point. Its not that malicious activity didn't occur to me that migth happen, i just like to think that it wont. Any way, enough said.
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-06 04:16 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2753.1370456219.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #47125 |
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:08 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > Anyway, i should'n have given root access to you, i was a bit worried doing so, but i was also under stress of also correcting this damn encoding issue and i wanted to think you would be the one that finally help solving it. > > You shouldnt have gone "that far", just to prove a point. > Its not that malicious activity didn't occur to me that migth happen, i just like to think that it wont. Sure, you'd like to think that nothing will ever go wrong. Trouble is, you can't depend on that. Maybe Steven D'Aprano would have solved your problem for you... maybe not. Maybe you would have picked someone who totally smashed your system, reputation, bank balance, and family pet. How would you know? The point of security is not to trust that most people will be fine. The point of security is to be secure. You may not be able to guard against everything, but you can certainly put some effort into not making it easy for an attacker. Treat the root password as a keyring with all of your keys on it, and assume that you're going on holidays overseas. Do you contact strangers to ask them to feed your cat? Or do you talk to a trusted friend? ChrisA
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| From | Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 11:22 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b1011ffc-fdec-447e-9e2e-c309833fb3db@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #47126 |
Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 9:16:56 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Chris Angelico έγραψε: >Do you contact strangers to ask them to feed your cat? Or do you talk to a >trusted friend? Well i dont consider you a perfect stranger, because we kind of know each other since we speak here sometime. You know how much i was striving for help resolving this, and i was happy this morning thinking that Chris will fianlly put me out of this encoding misery....
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| From | Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 11:34 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e5fc361c-0d82-406d-ae16-88a026e7f407@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #47127 |
Here is the mails you sent to my customers for the other members to see. ----------------------------------- Greetings. I apologize for this unsolicited email, but I feel that you have a right to know about the security of your server. Νικόλαος Κούρας (Nikos) has been in repeated communication with the members of python-list with regard to many issues he is having, and he has happily granted root access to his server to someone he has never met and has no reason to trust. This compromises your data and your web site. Fortunately for you, the person he gave his password is me, and I have no intention of causing damage. However, if I wanted to, I could do *anything* to his server. As a simple demonstration, I have placed a file called Hello_from_Rosuav in the root directory of each of your web sites, for instance: http://leonidasgkelos.com/Hello_from_Rosuav http://parking-byzantio.gr/Hello_from_Rosuav Your email addresses, too, I obtained from the server. If you are storing personal details of any of your customers, I could access those, but on principle I haven't looked. Please consider carefully who you trust with your hosting. There is no need to panic right now, as there has been no damage done (beyond the creation of the file I mentioned above, which you can easily delete). But be aware that Nikos is not a competent systems administrator, and I would not trust him with any of my data. You can find a large number of posts by Nikos on python-list here: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-June/thread.html Feel free to contact me for further details. I apologize that I cannot communicate in Greek; I hope that this will not be a problem. I advise that you look to alternative web hosting. ----------------------------------- Thanks for screwing me up entirely and made me look what you made me look for all i did was to trust you.
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-06 04:46 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2756.1370457966.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #47129 |
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:34 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > Here is the mails you sent to my customers for the other members to see. Yep, containing nothing I haven't said on-list. > Thanks for screwing me up entirely and made me look what you made me look for all i did was to trust you. Making you look like what? A systems administrator who can't be trusted? Because that is, quite frankly, entirely accurate. Suppose you go to a posh place that offers valet parking. You make sure that the person you're giving your car key to is employed by the club, and you let him take control of your car. Unbeknownst to you, he doesn't actually park your car, he calls out to the loafers, asking them to park it. He knows these guys, they're always hanging around. He gives the key to one of them, who gets in your car and looks around. That's what you've done. You violated the trust your clients placed in you, and your only response is to claim that a person (with whom you had no contractual arrangement or even verbal promise) violated your trust. It's like saying "I can keep a secret, it's just the folks I tell it to who can't". ChrisA
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| From | Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 11:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <97d1a8e7-ca2e-498d-93ed-722142f7e038@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #47132 |
Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 9:46:03 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Chris Angelico έγραψε: > On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:34 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Here is the mails you sent to my customers for the other members to see. > > > > Yep, containing nothing I haven't said on-list. > > > > > Thanks for screwing me up entirely and made me look what you made me look for all i did was to trust you. > > > > Making you look like what? A systems administrator who can't be > > trusted? Because that is, quite frankly, entirely accurate. > > > > Suppose you go to a posh place that offers valet parking. You make > > sure that the person you're giving your car key to is employed by the > > club, and you let him take control of your car. Unbeknownst to you, he > > doesn't actually park your car, he calls out to the loafers, asking > > them to park it. He knows these guys, they're always hanging around. > > He gives the key to one of them, who gets in your car and looks > > around. > > > > That's what you've done. You violated the trust your clients placed in > > you, and your only response is to claim that a person (with whom you > > had no contractual arrangement or even verbal promise) violated your > > trust. It's like saying "I can keep a secret, it's just the folks I > > tell it to who can't". > > > > ChrisA Its funny how doing what you did you manage to turn the whole thing against me. WHY isntead of doing wht you did, dint you choose to actually *help* ? I'am beginning to dislkike you more and more as you speak.
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| From | Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 14:52 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2757.1370458375.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #47129 |
: On 5 June 2013 14:34, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > Here is the mails you sent to my customers for the other members to see. > ----------------------------------- > [...] > I advise that you look to alternative web hosting. > ----------------------------------- > > Thanks for screwing me up entirely and made me look what you made me look for all i did was to trust you. Chris has done your customers an important service (one which I would not have risked, given your propensity for badmouthing those with whom you come in contact). You are dangerously incompetent as a hosting provider, as you have demonstrated here repeatedly. Be thankful that the person you stupidly granted root access to has a sense of ethics, and learn your trade. -[]z.
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| From | Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 11:58 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <72903858-b5b4-414f-8ac5-958c436cf8eb@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #47133 |
Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 9:52:27 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Zero Piraeus έγραψε: > : > > > > On 5 June 2013 14:34, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Here is the mails you sent to my customers for the other members to see. > > > ----------------------------------- > > > [...] > > > I advise that you look to alternative web hosting. > > > ----------------------------------- > > > > > > Thanks for screwing me up entirely and made me look what you made me look for all i did was to trust you. > > > > Chris has done your customers an important service (one which I would > > not have risked, given your propensity for badmouthing those with whom > > you come in contact). You are dangerously incompetent as a hosting > > provider, as you have demonstrated here repeatedly. Be thankful that > > the person you stupidly granted root access to has a sense of ethics, > > and learn your trade. > > > > -[]z. Well, if he had ethics he would have told me that his intentiosn were to screw my business and also he could actually tried to help me out. I'am not incompetentm i;m a beginner and i learn along the way, also i ahve a hostign company and 3rd level tech that support me when it come to system administration. Now, you were right about my bad mouth because iam going to tell you to sod off.
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-06 05:13 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2759.1370459624.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #47136 |
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, if he had ethics he would have told me that his intentiosn were to screw my business and also he could actually tried to help me out. I did. :) > I'am not incompetentm i;m a beginner and i learn along the way, also i ahve a hostign company and 3rd level tech that support me when it come to system administration. Beginners learning along the way do not run businesses. I wouldn't hire someone to build me a porch if he admits that he's still learning which end of the hammer to hit with. (That's understandable if it's a PHP hammer with claws on both ends, but I still wouldn't hire him.) And if I hired someone to build that porch and only afterward discovered that he didn't know a screw from a nail, I would be pretty miffed. Nikos, you are that carpenter. There's nothing wrong with being a beginner. We all start out that way. But a beginner plays with things that don't have major consequence. If you didn't have paying customers, you would not need to worry about what I might have done; at very worst, you just wipe the system and reinstall. (You DO have basic firewalling to make sure I can't damage any other box, right?) And even more so, if you didn't have paying customers, you would not be in a tizz about things. You could simply set the matter aside and come back later. This is safe. Don't do what you wouldn't stand for someone else doing. ChrisA
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| From | Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 12:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <48ac4867-b257-4c84-a5cf-6f3f63ab320f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #47139 |
Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 10:13:41 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Chris Angelico έγραψε: > On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Well, if he had ethics he would have told me that his intentiosn were to screw my business and also he could actually tried to help me out. > > > > I did. :) > > > > > I'am not incompetentm i;m a beginner and i learn along the way, also i ahve a hostign company and 3rd level tech that support me when it come to system administration. > > > > Beginners learning along the way do not run businesses. I wouldn't > > hire someone to build me a porch if he admits that he's still learning > > which end of the hammer to hit with. (That's understandable if it's a > > PHP hammer with claws on both ends, but I still wouldn't hire him.) > > And if I hired someone to build that porch and only afterward > > discovered that he didn't know a screw from a nail, I would be pretty > > miffed. Nikos, you are that carpenter. > > > > There's nothing wrong with being a beginner. We all start out that > > way. But a beginner plays with things that don't have major > > consequence. If you didn't have paying customers, you would not need > > to worry about what I might have done; at very worst, you just wipe > > the system and reinstall. (You DO have basic firewalling to make sure > > I can't damage any other box, right?) And even more so, if you didn't > > have paying customers, you would not be in a tizz about things. You > > could simply set the matter aside and come back later. This is safe. > > > > Don't do what you wouldn't stand for someone else doing. I'll have you know that all 10 of my client webpages run unproblematically and i support them by mail and teamviewer for free. I have even bough Softaculous licenses for them to have joomla and Drupal install in an automatic way so things go smooth and easy for them because tehy can all build Joomla from scratch. If i couldnt host their webistes i woudlnt have done so, but i can. And when i find t hard their is always the webhost company that supports me by just openign a ticket.
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| From | rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 11:55 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <cd8ee954-c287-4e49-8721-f9518ba16049@be10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #47129 |
On Jun 5, 11:34 pm, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Here is the mails you sent to my customers for the other members to see. <snipped> In the normal run of things, I would say Chris has done a horrible thing. In this case however, let us remember: Many people -- hardly exclusively Chris -- tried to educate you 1. on technical matters 2. on methodological matters (eg how to debug) 3. on matters of minimum etiquette -- eg spellchecking 4. on basic security For the most part, you simply have not listened. Finally Chris warned you what he can do. Instead of listening, you whined: "I trust you!!" (Heres a kiss!) and gave him your password. He gently tapped you on your rather hard and impervious 'Ferrous Cranus' to let you understand the implications. Even now, instead of understanding that you were wrong throughout, you are still blaming Chris -- Good Grief! And you expect us to sympathize with you?!?! I dont know whether to laugh or cry... Please note Nikos: If you obdurately, obstinately, insistently, incessantly behave like an asshole, you leave no-one the choice but to treat you like an asshole. So... Are you an asshole?? One can only hope that you prove me wrong...
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| From | Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 12:03 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e5fdedbb-1aa4-4d29-9076-16ad0e08f4d1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #47135 |
Τη Τετάρτη, 5 Ιουνίου 2013 9:55:46 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης rusi έγραψε: > On Jun 5, 11:34 pm, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Here is the mails you sent to my customers for the other members to see. > > <snipped> > > > > In the normal run of things, I would say Chris has done a horrible > > thing. > > In this case however, let us remember: > > Many people -- hardly exclusively Chris -- tried to educate you > > 1. on technical matters > > 2. on methodological matters (eg how to debug) > > 3. on matters of minimum etiquette -- eg spellchecking > > 4. on basic security > > > > For the most part, you simply have not listened. > > Finally Chris warned you what he can do. > > Instead of listening, you whined: "I trust you!!" (Heres a kiss!) and > > gave him your password. > > He gently tapped you on your rather hard and impervious 'Ferrous > > Cranus' to let you understand the implications. > > > > Even now, instead of understanding that you were wrong throughout, you > > are still blaming Chris -- Good Grief! > > > > And you expect us to sympathize with you?!?! I dont know whether to > > laugh or cry... > > > > Please note Nikos: > > If you obdurately, obstinately, insistently, incessantly behave like > > an asshole, you leave no-one the choice but to treat you like an > > asshole. > > > > So... Are you an asshole?? One can only hope that you prove me wrong... No, its your attitude that is beyond asshood. I decided a long time ago the certain people on the Python list were assholes, perhaps you are the leader here.
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-06 05:03 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2758.1370459025.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #47135 |
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:55 AM, rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote: > If you obdurately, obstinately, insistently, incessantly behave like > an asshole, you leave no-one the choice but to treat you like an > asshole. This is Python. We duck-type people. ChrisA
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| From | Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-05 15:29 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2760.1370460592.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #47135 |
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<snip> Now, you were right about my bad mouth because iam going to tell you to sod off. <snip> >Well, if he had ethics he would have told me that his intentiosn were to screw my business and also he could actually tried to help me out. Many times I've seen people here give you their best advice and you come back seemingly having not even read what they had to say. You just whine and say someone should help you, even though many have already done that. You don't take the help. Now in this case, Chris more or less proved my point. I've been reading along, and he said exactly what he would do if you gave him root access to your account. He said he would write to your users and explain to them the peril of how you run your hosting service. He didn't say he would help you. Go back and read exactly what he said, and then take a deep breath and do some introspection of your own conduct. He basically said, don't touch the stove, its hot. And you touched the stove and then complained. You act very poorly here. Grow up >I'am not incompetentm i;m a beginner and i learn along the way, also i ahve a hostign company and 3rd level tech that support me when it come to system administration. I think you are incompetent. No one knows everything, and groups like this are a great place to learn more. But part of being competent is being careful. You are reckless. You work on a live server for which you have paying customers. You make endless changes to your code without taking the time to go off and google for information about the topic you are struggling with. Your live site should probably have been put together using a framework, but that would have required you to read about, experiment with and use a framework. You write html code in the midst of your python code. You have endless encoding/decoding issues, but you have never apparently read the many articles on how unicode works. Have some respect for the science and craft of making good software. On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:55 AM, rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote: > > If you obdurately, obstinately, insistently, incessantly behave like > > an asshole, you leave no-one the choice but to treat you like an > > asshole. > > This is Python. We duck-type people. > > ChrisA > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- Joel Goldstick http://joelgoldstick.com
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