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Groups > comp.lang.python > #39463 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Piterrr <piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-02-21 13:26 -0800 |
| Last post | 2013-02-25 19:37 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 161 — 34 participants |
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Python Newbie Piterrr <piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com> - 2013-02-21 13:26 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-21 14:54 -0700
Re: Python Newbie MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-21 21:58 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 08:59 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2013-02-21 22:03 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-02-21 17:22 -0500
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-21 14:40 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 10:21 +1100
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-21 15:34 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-21 23:48 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 11:32 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 11:58 -0700
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-21 15:34 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-21 23:27 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-21 16:55 -0700
Re: Python Newbie rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-02-21 22:57 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-22 10:26 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 12:05 +0100
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 22:23 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 16:04 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 09:23 +0100
Re: Python Newbie "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-02-24 23:02 -0300
Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 21:03 -0500
Re: Python Newbie "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-02-24 23:35 -0300
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 13:31 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-21 19:35 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-21 23:50 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 11:58 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 23:12 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 13:50 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 01:05 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-23 00:03 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 11:21 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-22 14:26 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 15:45 +0100
Re: Python Newbie Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-22 15:02 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 02:06 +1100
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-22 13:37 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 22:08 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 15:45 -0700
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-22 15:38 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 11:17 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-23 13:29 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 08:38 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 15:52 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 10:18 +1100
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-23 15:46 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-23 20:20 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-24 14:34 +0000
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 07:46 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 02:52 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 11:22 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-24 17:44 +0000
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 11:29 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 21:35 +0000
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 14:43 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 18:05 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 23:13 +0000
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 14:43 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-26 00:32 -0800
Re: Python Newbie rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-02-26 10:23 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-26 10:59 -0800
Re: Python Newbie rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-02-26 13:30 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 18:31 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 09:08 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 23:18 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 22:51 +0000
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 15:38 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 10:45 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-24 15:53 -0800
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 16:08 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 00:28 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-25 00:38 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-24 16:33 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 00:45 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 19:50 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-25 01:04 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 12:27 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 18:42 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 12:24 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 01:44 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 12:53 +1100
Re: Python Newbie MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-25 02:23 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-24 18:59 -0800
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 16:08 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 19:42 -0500
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 15:38 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 23:21 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-02-24 17:47 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 14:40 +0200
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 07:46 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 22:23 -0700
Re: Python Newbie MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-24 00:11 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-24 12:37 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 10:56 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 13:07 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-24 21:01 -0500
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-22 15:38 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-02-22 20:04 -0500
Re: Python Newbie rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-02-22 18:48 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-22 20:47 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-23 02:02 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 13:18 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-24 18:19 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 07:25 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-22 21:40 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 13:48 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-23 02:59 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-23 13:34 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 08:40 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-24 12:41 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-23 04:13 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 11:48 +0200
Re: Python Newbie Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:30 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 16:43 +0100
Re: Python Newbie jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 10:44 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:13 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-23 11:08 -0800
Re: Python Newbie jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:53 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 08:48 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-24 00:02 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:16 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2013-02-24 00:06 +0100
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 02:51 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2013-02-24 00:04 +0100
Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-23 08:32 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 18:39 +0100
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:19 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-24 17:11 +0000
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 11:40 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-24 15:06 -0500
Re: Python Newbie "Michael Ross" <gmx@ross.cx> - 2013-02-24 21:33 +0100
Re: Python Newbie MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-24 20:34 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-24 20:41 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-24 12:34 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 07:42 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 15:48 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 21:58 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-24 21:08 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 02:59 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 07:47 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 07:58 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 16:08 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 08:44 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-24 17:40 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-25 01:11 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-25 00:42 +0000
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 18:34 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-24 14:33 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Albert Hopkins <marduk@letterboxes.org> - 2013-02-24 18:32 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 10:44 +1100
Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-25 01:06 +0000
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 11:40 -0800
Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-22 13:37 -0800
Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-22 20:05 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2013-02-23 12:32 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 19:10 +0100
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 11:40 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:15 -0700
Re: Python Newbie Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2013-02-23 17:49 -0500
Re: Python Newbie Nick Mellor <thebalancepro@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 19:37 -0800
Page 5 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 Next page →
| From | Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-25 01:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2477.1361756708.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39826 |
On 25 February 2013 01:24, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Oscar Benjamin > <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 25 February 2013 00:08, <piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com> wrote: >> Chris Angelico wrote: >>>> For example (I believe it's already been mentioned) "declaring" intX with some integer value does *nothing* to maintain >>>> >>>> X as an integer: >>>> >>>> --> intX = 32 >>>> >>>> --> intX = intX / 3.0 >>>> >>>> --> intX >>>> >>>> 10.6666666666 >>>> >>> >>> Yes I did see that it is possible to redefine the type of a variable. But I don't think I would ever do this intentionally; need to be really careful with Python. > >> The trickier cases are ones where two types are very similar and can >> be used similarly in most, but not all, situations. An example of this >> would be the one that Chris has highlighted where an object that you >> expected to be an int is actually a float. I find that I need to be >> careful when using division on quantities that I expected to be >> integers (true in all languages) and careful about the notation used >> in a numeric literal. Once you get used to it, you will find it easy >> to see that the '.0' that Chris appended was deliberate in order to >> control the type of the resulting object. > > Once again, Ethan gets the short end of the citations stick... > 'twarn't me wrote that, he did. Not that it's at all contrary to my > views, and I might well have said it if he hadn't, but credit should > go his direction :) Apologies to you both. The information was missing and I attempted to fill it in but got it wrong. > Note though that in Python 3, you don't need the explicit .0 to force > it to float (and __future__ can bring that to Python 2 too). 32/3 -> > 10.66666, int/int->float. That's true and I'm very glad of this change in Python 3. However other issues of float/int ambiguity remain for those (like me) who are particularly concerned with numbers and their accuracy/exactness. So it is still necessary in Python 3 to be careful around this issue. While it is an issue in all languages, it is one that is often easier to deal with in statically typed languages than in Python. Oscar
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-25 12:53 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2478.1361757228.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39826 |
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> wrote: > On 25 February 2013 01:24, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: >> Once again, Ethan gets the short end of the citations stick... >> 'twarn't me wrote that, he did. Not that it's at all contrary to my >> views, and I might well have said it if he hadn't, but credit should >> go his direction :) > > Apologies to you both. The information was missing and I attempted to > fill it in but got it wrong. I know, it's not easy; one person omits the citation line, another quotes that person and doesn't have the proper context. It's just odd that Ethan got short-changed twice in one thread across a few hours. Is the community trying to pretend he doesn't exist? :) ChrisA
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| From | MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-25 02:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2482.1361758999.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39826 |
On 2013-02-25 01:53, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Oscar Benjamin > <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 25 February 2013 01:24, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Once again, Ethan gets the short end of the citations stick... >>> 'twarn't me wrote that, he did. Not that it's at all contrary to my >>> views, and I might well have said it if he hadn't, but credit should >>> go his direction :) >> >> Apologies to you both. The information was missing and I attempted to >> fill it in but got it wrong. > > I know, it's not easy; one person omits the citation line, another > quotes that person and doesn't have the proper context. It's just odd > that Ethan got short-changed twice in one thread across a few hours. > Is the community trying to pretend he doesn't exist? :) > Pretend that who doesn't exist? :-)
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| From | Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 18:59 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2487.1361762182.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39826 |
On 02/24/2013 05:53 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Oscar Benjamin > <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 25 February 2013 01:24, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Once again, Ethan gets the short end of the citations stick... >>> 'twarn't me wrote that, he did. Not that it's at all contrary to my >>> views, and I might well have said it if he hadn't, but credit should >>> go his direction :) >> >> Apologies to you both. The information was missing and I attempted to >> fill it in but got it wrong. > > I know, it's not easy; one person omits the citation line, another > quotes that person and doesn't have the proper context. It's just odd > that Ethan got short-changed twice in one thread across a few hours. > Is the community trying to pretend he doesn't exist? :) Exist? I exist? Hey, no! Let me typ[CARRIER LOST]
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| From | piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 16:08 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2462.1361750895.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39824 |
> For example (I believe it's already been mentioned) "declaring" intX with some integer value does *nothing* to maintain > > X as an integer: > > --> intX = 32 > > --> intX = intX / 3.0 > > --> intX > > 10.6666666666 > Yes I did see that it is possible to redefine the type of a variable. But I don't think I would ever do this intentionally; need to be really careful with Python. Peter
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| From | Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 19:42 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <roy-A10B96.19422124022013@news.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #39824 |
In article <mailman.2461.1361749985.2939.python-list@python.org>,
Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> On 02/24/2013 03:38 PM, piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>> intX = 32 # decl + init int var
> >> How is it not obvious that "intX" is an integer *without* the comment?
> >
> > Indeed the assignment is enough to deduce "intX" is an int. The comment is
> > there to let me know it is unlikely intX appears earlier in the code.
> > Please, let me do things my way until I find reasons to the contrary.
>
> Of course you can, but wouldn't you rather find reasons to the contrary by us
> telling you, instead of tripping
> over something yourself?
>
> For example (I believe it's already been mentioned) "declaring" intX with
> some integer value does *nothing* to maintain
> X as an integer:
>
> --> intX = 32
> --> intX = intX / 3.0
> --> intX
> 10.6666666666
I could imagine a getattr-based implementation of DBC (Design By
Contract) which does use the variable name to enforce type. Unclear if
this is a Good Thing, a Bad Thing, or a just plain Crazy Thing. In any
cae, it would be a neat (if somewhat advanced) exercise for somebody
interested in enforcing types and looking to explore some of the more
arcane corners of Python.
class DBC_Example:
# Ad-libbing this, code not tested
def __setattr__(self, name, value):
if name.startswith('int'):
assert isinstance(value, int)
self.__dict__[name] = value
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| From | piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 15:38 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2457.1361749140.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39816 |
>> intX = 32 # decl + init int var > How is it not obvious that "intX" is an integer *without* the comment? Indeed the assignment is enough to deduce "intX" is an int. The comment is there to let me know it is unlikely intX appears earlier in the code. Please, let me do things my way until I find reasons to the contrary. Regarding my use of None to mean NULL, point taken to use "" instead. Peter
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| From | Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 23:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2455.1361748133.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39777 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 24 February 2013 23:18, Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com>wrote: > On 24 February 2013 21:35, Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > determinant = b**2 - 4*a*c > > It's called the discriminant. A determinant is something altogether > different. *cries at own idiocy* Thank you.
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| From | Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 17:47 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2450.1361746071.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39750 |
On 02/24/2013 10:46 AM, piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com wrote: > Hi guys, > > Question. Have this code > > intX = 32 # decl + init int var > intX_asString = None # decl + init with NULL string var None is not a str, and it's not a "NULL string var" Perhaps what you want is intX_asString = "" > I am using a Python IDE called PyScripter. Its Intellisense is full > of methods starting and ending with "__", hence the question. I'm surprised; I'd expect the Intellisense to filter those out by default, since people seldom should call them. -- DaveA
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| From | Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-25 14:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2502.1361796024.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39750 |
On 24.02.13 17:52, Chris Angelico wrote: > By the way, when you're asking a completely new question, it usually > helps to do so as a brand new thread (not a reply) and with a new > subject line. Otherwise, you risk people losing the new question among > the discussion of the old. You risk people losing your answer when you're answering such question.
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| From | piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 07:46 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2409.1361720771.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39746 |
Hi guys, Question. Have this code intX = 32 # decl + init int var intX_asString = None # decl + init with NULL string var intX_asString = intX.__str__ () # convert int to string What are these ugly underscores for? _________________str___________________ Peter
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| From | Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-23 22:23 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2395.1361683389.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39722 |
On 02/23/2013 04:46 PM, piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com wrote: > Yes, it's true that I am trying to write C# code in Python. It is not > going to change any time soon, if at all - I have done too much > C#ing, C++ing before that and C-ing earlier still. Unfortunately as long as do, you'll find Python a less-than-satisfying experience. And I'm a bit surprised too because if you tried to program C# as you would C++, you'd likely also be frustrated. C, C++, and C# all demand different programming paradigms and even styles (despite the similarity in the braces). Yet you got used to that.
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| From | MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 00:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2388.1361664709.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39627 |
On 2013-02-23 23:18, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 02/23/2013 02:38 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: >>> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 5:29 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber >>> <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >>>> Error codes under DEC VAX/VMS used odd integers for >>>> "success/information" and even integers for "warning/error" (been too >>>> many years, I think positive integers were success/warning, negative >>>> integers were information/error; I could also be wrong on which set were >>>> even... if 0 were no-info/success then odd were errors and even were >>>> success)). >>> >>> Sounds like IBM DB2 and sqlca.sqlcode - 0 for success, <0 for error, >>>> 0 for warning (or in some cases "status" - an SQLCODE of 100 means >>> "end of result set", which isn't exactly an error but you can't fetch >>> any more from it; it's akin to Python raising StopIteration to >>> terminate a for loop). >> >> All apps that return an error code to the operating system return 0 for >> success, any other value for error. All command-line utilities work >> this way, all shells, etc. Even Windows command-line apps work this way >> (errorlevel is what they call it). > > Yep, the 0 = success part is pretty much universal (it's been said > that the cause of the downfall of the Roman empire was that, lacking > zero, they were unable to succeed at anything), but the notion of > negative for errors and positive for warnings isn't as clear; > errorlevels and Unix return codes are positive-only. > ...although some C functions return a negative error code because a non-negative value is the number of characters written.
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| From | Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 12:37 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2418.1361727431.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39627 |
On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 15:52:31 -0700, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com>
declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> All apps that return an error code to the operating system return 0 for
> success, any other value for error. All command-line utilities work
> this way, all shells, etc. Even Windows command-line apps work this way
> (errorlevel is what they call it).
Decided to look up the VAX/VMS scheme...
"""
If you know the condition code for a message, you can use F$MESSAGE to
translate the code to its associated message. For example:
$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$MESSAGE(%X00000001)
%SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion
"""
VMS used a status of "1" for normal success (which implies that all
the odd integers were success/info messages, even integers would be
warning/error/fatal.
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/ovms_msg_ref_al.pdf
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
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| From | Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 10:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2420.1361728619.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39627 |
On 02/24/2013 10:37 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > Decided to look up the VAX/VMS scheme... > > """ > If you know the condition code for a message, you can use F$MESSAGE to > translate the code to its associated message. For example: > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$MESSAGE(%X00000001) > %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion > """ > > VMS used a status of "1" for normal success (which implies that all > the odd integers were success/info messages, even integers would be > warning/error/fatal. > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/ovms_msg_ref_al.pdf It's interesting to note that Windows NT sort of descends from VMS. I guess the end result was an unholy blend of VMS and CP/M.
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| From | Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 13:07 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <roy-6665CF.13072724022013@news.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #39764 |
In article <mailman.2420.1361728619.2939.python-list@python.org>, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote: > It's interesting to note that Windows NT sort of descends from VMS. More than "sort of". Dave Cutler was the chief architect of both.
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| From | Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-24 21:01 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2480.1361757708.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39627 |
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 10:56:53 -0700, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com>
declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> It's interesting to note that Windows NT sort of descends from VMS. I
> guess the end result was an unholy blend of VMS and CP/M.
Pity they didn't take the "good parts" of VMS...
Interprocess communication via "mailboxes" would have been nice...
More general than UNIX-style "pipes", as once the mailbox has been
created, multiple processes could connect for read or write in parallel.
Processes don't have to be blocked by mailbox I/O...
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
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| From | piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-22 15:38 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2313.1361576864.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39621 |
Hi Ian, Thanks for typing all this for me. Really useful. I did some googling of my own and I found that there was no concept of boolean in older versions of Python like you said. (BTW, how does this omission go well with proper language design, as Oscar seems to have hinted?) I think this obvious shortcomming is the main reason that, for example, when x holds the value of 5, x is considered to be "true". You see, I have to maintain Python files (ubuntu server scripts) which are 2000 lines long, all sequential code, no functions. While the person who wrote them should be shot :), the fact that there is inherent ambiguity with value, none, null 0, you name it, in conditional statements is not helping me understand the code, and this adds to my frustration. I messed up my if (some statement): # short form in the example I gave, but you figured exactly what I mean. Of course if the condition (some statement) is boolean there is no point adding "== true" or similar. But if (some statement) represents a value this is where I have trouble and again the origins of this date back to when Python had no boolean type. So now at least I understand it. Btw, there are still languages with no boolean type today, MySQL for one. This creates big efficiency problems when fetching data from the database into a C# program - what should be a bool is fetched as an 8-byte integer! But that's a different story. I shut up now. As I said I am new to Python, learning it, I have to get more experience with passing parameter values to functions, as I do with mostly everything else. Cheers. Peter
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| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-22 20:04 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2320.1361581500.2939.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #39615 |
On 2/22/2013 4:37 PM, piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com wrote: Yours is the first post here, that I know of, from someone 'forced' to learn and use Python at their job. Several people have instead complained about being prohibited from using Python at work. I am sorry that you have been introduced to it in such a poor way. I am doubly sorry that your first Python job is to work with a monstrous script that most of us would likely also hate. I am sure anyone responding here would have split 2000 lines into multiple testable functions even if every function was called just once (other than in the test code). I came to Python from C. It took me about 2 weeks to grok the difference between being object based and memory-block based. I am glad someone who knows something of C# could say more. About 'if obj: pass'. Simplifying just a bit, the interpreter executes that internally as 'if obj.__bool__() ...'. It adds the implicit call so you do not have to write it, or an equivalent expression. For each class, the method gives an appropriate default classification. For numbers, 'if x' means 'if x != 0'. For collections, 'if c' means 'if len(c) != 0'. Once one gets used to it, it is a great saving in writing and reading. If the default classification is not the one you want, you write an explicit expression that is the one you want. I too would have preferred fun or func, but I live with def. As for function calling, forget 'pass by value' versus 'pass by reference'. Both mislead in certain situations. x = y+3 computes an object from 'y+3', looking up name 'y' in the current namespaces, and associates the object with name 'x' in the current local namespace. (This assumes the default situation with no 'global x' or 'nonlocal x' declarations.) def f(x): return 2*x f(y+3) computes an object from 'y+3' looking up name 'y' in the current namespaces, makes the local namespace of f the current local namespace, and associates the object with the name 'x' in the new local namespace. Toy? I think the first 'killer app' for Python was nuclear weapon calculations at U.S. National Labs (Livermore and Los Alamos), where numerical python started. The current version, numpy, along with scipy and many other packages, is used throughout the sciences. On the other hand, Python is the most fun language for most of us, so in that sense it's a great toy. And I also think it a great replacement for Basic. -- Terry Jan Reedy
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| From | rurpy@yahoo.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-22 18:48 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <14842819-712e-4b0d-910f-27fef84f6046@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #39637 |
On Friday, February 22, 2013 6:04:21 PM UTC-7, Terry Reedy wrote: >[...] the first 'killer app' for Python was nuclear weapon calculations... Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "killer app", doesn't it?
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