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Groups > comp.lang.python > #42852 > unrolled thread

I hate you all

Started byterminatorul@gmail.com
First post2013-04-05 14:41 -0700
Last post2013-04-07 19:25 +0100
Articles 8 on this page of 88 — 25 participants

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  I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 14:41 -0700
    Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:53 +1100
    Re: I hate you all John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2013-04-05 21:55 +0000
      Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 15:04 -0700
        Re: I hate you all Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 17:28 -0500
        Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:42 -0600
          Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 17:22 -0700
            Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 11:35 +1100
              Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:07 +0300
                Re: I hate you all Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-04-05 22:28 -0700
                Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:53 -0600
                  Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 09:56 +0300
                    Re: I hate you all Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 11:17 +0100
                      Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 17:22 +0300
                        Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:30 +0000
                        Re: I hate you all Roland Koebler <r.koebler@yahoo.de> - 2013-04-08 00:52 +0200
                Re: I hate you all Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:59 -0600
                  Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-06 06:19 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:49 -0600
            Re: I hate you all Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 19:50 -0500
            Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-06 02:07 +0000
            Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 21:53 -0600
              Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:36 +0300
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 16:44 +1100
                Re: I hate you all Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:58 -0600
                  Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 10:07 +0300
                Re: I hate you all Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-04-05 23:00 -0700
                  Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:37 +0000
                    Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:49 -0400
                Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-06 06:55 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-04-06 13:17 -0700
                  Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 14:37 +0300
              Re: I hate you all Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-04-06 14:52 +0100
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 01:20 +1100
                  Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 17:37 +0300
                  Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:01 -0400
                    Re: I hate you all Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-04-06 15:15 +0000
                      Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:41 +0000
                        Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 09:00 -0700
                      Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:59 -0400
                        Re: I hate you all Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-04-06 18:48 +0000
                    Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:31 -0700
                    Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 07:29 +1000
                    Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-07 01:38 +0000
                  Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-07 01:30 +0000
                    Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 22:15 -0400
                    Re: I hate you all Jason Friedman <jsf80238@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 20:42 -0600
                    Re: I hate you all Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-04-08 19:43 +0100
                      Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-08 19:48 +0000
                        Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-08 21:25 +0000
                          Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-08 21:29 +0000
                            Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 08:00 +1000
                              Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-08 22:51 +0000
                                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 08:57 +1000
                                Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-09 09:33 +0100
                                  Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-09 13:39 +0000
                                    Re: I hate you all Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-04-09 09:17 -0500
                                    Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 00:20 +1000
                                    Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-09 16:51 +0100
                                      Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-09 21:09 +0000
                                        Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-09 23:09 +0100
                                          Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 23:21 +0000
                                            Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 09:28 +1000
                                              Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-09 23:50 +0000
                                                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 10:31 +1000
                                                  Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-10 02:00 +0000
                                                    Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 12:14 +1000
                                            Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-10 00:39 +0100
                                            Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-10 00:41 +0100
                                      Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-09 21:43 +0000
                      Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 02:51 +0000
                        Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 21:06 -0700
                          Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 21:52 -0700
                          Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 05:19 +0000
            Re: I hate you all "Günther Dietrich" <gd.usenet@spamfence.net> - 2013-04-06 14:55 +0200
          Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 17:22 -0700
        Re: I hate you all Isaac To <isaac.to@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 06:35 +0800
        Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 17:00 -0600
    Re: I hate you all Dylan Evans <dylan@dje.me> - 2013-04-06 14:28 +1000
      Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 22:13 -0700
        Re: I hate you all Dylan Evans <dylan@dje.me> - 2013-04-07 13:00 +1000
          Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 14:44 +0300
            Re: I hate you all Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-04-07 11:12 -0700
              Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-07 14:33 -0400
      Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 22:13 -0700
    Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:27 +0000
      Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:58 -0400
    Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-07 19:25 +0100

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#42971

FromDylan Evans <dylan@dje.me>
Date2013-04-07 13:00 +1000
Message-ID<mailman.226.1365303630.3114.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#42886

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Then you see my point, unless you are being told what to use by a boss then
there are plenty of other languages you can choose from. Python is rigid
about it's format, that's just what it is and a lot of people like it but
if it's not your thing then some other language will probably suit you
better. However, if you are working for a company, or OSS project, you are
probably going to have your style dictated whatever language you use, for
example the 2 space indents (*shudder*) that google uses in c++
http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/cppguide.xml?showone=Spaces_vs._Tabs#Spaces_vs._Tabs
(Interestingly
google use 4 space indents in python for compatibility with PEP-8
http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pyguide.html?showone=Indentation#Indentation
)

You probably won't like everything in a project style but it's not about
being tyrannical, and it's not a bad thing to have restrictions at the
language level.

I work for a company with a load of lagacy c formatted as follows:

int many_many_globals;
int func(int iFoo,int iBar)
{
int var = 10;
if(iBar>1)
    {
    var=iFoo+many_many_globals;
    }
return var;
}

So i am pretty happy to adopt a language which defines a sane style.

This is a nice flame war you have stirred up.



On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 3:13 PM, <terminatorul@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, April 6, 2013 7:28:55 AM UTC+3, Dylan Evans wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:41 AM,  <termin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> >
> >
> > I just tried python 3.3 with some simple script meant for unit test.
> >
> > How can python authors be so arrogant to impose their tabs and spaces
> options on me ? It should be my choice if I want to use tabs or not !
> >
> >
> > Don't like it? Use ruby.
>
>
> Actually next on my list is perl. I know ruby is sexy, but taming the wild
> beast is what makes me feel like the real cowboy.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
"The UNIX system has a command, nice ... in order to be nice to the other
users. Nobody ever uses it." - Andrew S. Tanenbaum

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#42995

FromTimothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com>
Date2013-04-07 14:44 +0300
Message-ID<51615c02$0$32104$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#42971
On 07.04.2013 06:00, Dylan Evans wrote:
> Then you see my point, unless you are being told what to use by a boss
> then there are plenty of other languages you can choose from. Python is
> rigid about it's format, that's just what it is and a lot of people like
> it but if it's not your thing then some other language will probably
> suit you better. However, if you are working for a company, or OSS
> project, you are probably going to have your style dictated whatever
> language you use [...]

I am ok with the people that like python the way it is.

But an option from python authors to make tabs work the way they used to 
would have been nice.

Just my opinion, I do see other people here think otherwise...


Timothy Madden

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#43009

FromEthan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us>
Date2013-04-07 11:12 -0700
Message-ID<mailman.247.1365358341.3114.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#42995
On 04/07/2013 04:44 AM, Timothy Madden wrote:
>
> I am ok with the people that like python the way it is.

Really?  'Cause I totally missed that from the subject line...

--
~Ethan~

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#43011

FromRoy Smith <roy@panix.com>
Date2013-04-07 14:33 -0400
Message-ID<roy-EE53E5.14334707042013@news.panix.com>
In reply to#43009
In article <mailman.247.1365358341.3114.python-list@python.org>,
 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> wrote:

> On 04/07/2013 04:44 AM, Timothy Madden wrote:
> >
> > I am ok with the people that like python the way it is.
> 
> Really?  'Cause I totally missed that from the subject line...
> 
> --
> ~Ethan~

Take this logically...

1) Ethan hates all clp readers

2) Ethan does not hate people who "like python the way it is"

I therefore deduce that Ethan believes there are no clp readers who 
"like python the way it is".  This may be a mistaken belief, but at 
least there's no logical contradiction.

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#42896

Fromterminatorul@gmail.com
Date2013-04-05 22:13 -0700
Message-ID<mailman.192.1365230191.3114.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#42884
On Saturday, April 6, 2013 7:28:55 AM UTC+3, Dylan Evans wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:41 AM,  <termin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> 
> I just tried python 3.3 with some simple script meant for unit test.
> 
> How can python authors be so arrogant to impose their tabs and spaces options on me ? It should be my choice if I want to use tabs or not !
> 
> 
> Don't like it? Use ruby.


Actually next on my list is perl. I know ruby is sexy, but taming the wild beast is what makes me feel like the real cowboy.

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#42920

FromGrant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-04-06 15:27 +0000
Message-ID<kjpet5$n35$2@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#42852
On 2013-04-05, terminatorul@gmail.com <terminatorul@gmail.com> wrote:

[Mad that in 3.3 you can no longer use ambiguous mixtures of spaces
and tabs within a single indent level.]

My boss would refer to this as a failure to be "bug-compatible" with
the previous version.

Whether or not to maintain bug-compatibility when you bring out a new
version is one of the eternal debates.  No matter what you do, it's
going to annoy somebody...

-- 
Grant

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#42928

FromRoy Smith <roy@panix.com>
Date2013-04-06 11:58 -0400
Message-ID<roy-EE5332.11583106042013@news.panix.com>
In reply to#42920
In article <kjpet5$n35$2@reader1.panix.com>,
 Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 2013-04-05, terminatorul@gmail.com <terminatorul@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [Mad that in 3.3 you can no longer use ambiguous mixtures of spaces
> and tabs within a single indent level.]
> 
> My boss would refer to this as a failure to be "bug-compatible" with
> the previous version.
> 
> Whether or not to maintain bug-compatibility when you bring out a new
> version is one of the eternal debates.  No matter what you do, it's
> going to annoy somebody...

I remember the first VAX was got.  We used some third-party serial card 
because it cost a small fraction of the official DEC version.  We had 
all sorts of trouble with it.  Eventually it turned out that the 
third-party card was operating correctly according to the DEC specs, but 
the driver had been written to work against genuine DEC hardware, which 
didn't follow their own published spec!

I vaguely remember it had to do with how the DMA processor dealt with 
odd-sized block transfers.  As I recall, there was a software patch to 
the driver which allowed it to work with the correctly implemented 
hardware, but I could be messing up most of the details.

Great machine, that VAX.  For only $100k, three or four people could 
play rogue at the same time!

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#43010

FromMark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2013-04-07 19:25 +0100
Message-ID<mailman.248.1365359045.3114.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#42852
On 05/04/2013 22:41, terminatorul@gmail.com wrote:

snipped as loads of comments already made.

> Timothy Madden
>

The BDFL's view from many moons ago 
www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/regrets/PythonRegrets.ppt slide 3.

-- 
If you're using GoogleCrap™ please read this 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython.

Mark Lawrence

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