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turtle ??

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  turtle ?? Ömer sarı <sari.omer.1989@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 23:39 -0800
    Re: turtle ?? Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2016-03-09 10:06 +0100
      Re: turtle ?? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 22:55 +1100
        Re: turtle ?? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 09:24 -0500
        Re: turtle ?? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-03-09 18:14 +0000
          Re: turtle ?? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 13:45 +1100
            Re: turtle ?? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 14:47 +1100
              Re: turtle ?? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-10 08:14 +0200
                Re: turtle ?? Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-03-10 08:46 +0200
                Text input with keyboard, via input methods (was: turtle ??) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-10 18:28 +1100
                  Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods (was: turtle ??) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 23:54 -0800
                    Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-10 20:51 -0800
                      Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 03:46 -0800
                  Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-10 12:51 +0200
                    Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 03:59 -0800
                    Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods Jerry Hill <malaclypse2@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 09:38 -0500
                      Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-10 17:13 +0200
                        Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 07:19 +1100
                    Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-03-10 21:48 +0000
                      Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-11 00:47 +0200
                Re: turtle ?? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 18:39 +1100
    Re: turtle ?? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-03-09 10:30 -0500

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#104392 — turtle ??

hi ,

l would like to ask a question as l m a little bit confused .l do practice in "how to think like a computer scientist:learning with python3.l installed python 2.7.10 and upper version 3.5 python.when l run  example code in the book , it gave me error.you can find the code , below.
""
import turtle             # Allows us to use turtles
 wn = turtle.Screen()      # Creates a playground for turtles
 alex = turtle.Turtle()    # Create a turtle, assign to alex

 alex.forward(50)          # Tell alex to move forward by 50 units
 alex.left(90)             # Tell alex to turn by 90 degrees
 alex.forward(30)          # Complete the second side of a rectangle

 wn.mainloop()             # Wait for user to close window

"" example code taken from "how to think like a computer scientist:learning with python3" chapter3. so l wonder which version of python l need to use for that code make work??.another question , is there any module which is named as arcpy?

 best regards.

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#104396

Ömer sarı wrote:

> l would like to ask a question as l m a little bit confused .

In computing details matter, and in communication odd personal habits 
distract from the actual message. Please reconsider your use of an "l" as a 
replacement for "I".

> l do practice
> in "how to think like a computer scientist:learning with python3.l
> installed python 2.7.10 and upper version 3.5 python.when l run  example
> code in the book , it gave me error.you can find the code , below. ""

At least as important are the specifics of the "error". Did Python print a a 
"traceback"? This gives detailed information about the error and where in 
the code it occurs. You should always provide it (cut and paste, don't 
paraphrase).

> import turtle             # Allows us to use turtles
>  wn = turtle.Screen()      # Creates a playground for turtles
>  alex = turtle.Turtle()    # Create a turtle, assign to alex
> 
>  alex.forward(50)          # Tell alex to move forward by 50 units
>  alex.left(90)             # Tell alex to turn by 90 degrees
>  alex.forward(30)          # Complete the second side of a rectangle
> 
>  wn.mainloop()             # Wait for user to close window
> 
> "" example code taken from "how to think like a computer
> scientist:learning with python3" chapter3. so l wonder which version of
> python l need to use for that code make work??

There are bigger differences between Python 2 and Python 3 than between 
Python 3.1 and Python 3.5. An example written for Python 3.1 is more likely 
to run with Python 3.5 than 2.7. Therefore I recommend that you work through 
the book using the 3.5 interpreter.

> .another question , is there
> any module which is named as arcpy?

Please use separate posts for unrelated questions. Try a search engine 
before you bother humans.

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#104401

On Wed, 9 Mar 2016 08:06 pm, Peter Otten wrote:

> Ömer sarı wrote:
> 
>> l would like to ask a question as l m a little bit confused .
> 
> In computing details matter, and in communication odd personal habits
> distract from the actual message. Please reconsider your use of an "l" as
> a replacement for "I".

While I don't disagree, it is possible that Ömer sarı is typing on a
keyboard that doesn't have an I, or makes it difficult to use. The last
letter of his(?) name is LATIN SMALL LETTER DOTLESS I, which suggests
possibly a Turkish or Armenian keyboard. I don't know how easy it is to get
I as opposed to İ (LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DOT ABOVE). So we might like
to give him a little slack.

But apart from that, I agree: in the long term, if Ömer is going to be
programming, he'll need to do something about that keyboard.



-- 
Steven

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#104412

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Mar 2016 08:06 pm, Peter Otten wrote:
>
> > Ömer sarı wrote:
> >
> >> l would like to ask a question as l m a little bit confused .
> >
> > In computing details matter, and in communication odd personal habits
> > distract from the actual message. Please reconsider your use of an "l" as
> > a replacement for "I".
>
> While I don't disagree, it is possible that Ömer sarı is typing on a
> keyboard that doesn't have an I, or makes it difficult to use. The last
> letter of his(?) name is LATIN SMALL LETTER DOTLESS I, which suggests
> possibly a Turkish or Armenian keyboard. I don't know how easy it is to get
> I as opposed to İ (LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DOT ABOVE). So we might like
> to give him a little slack.
>
> But apart from that, I agree: in the long term, if Ömer is going to be
> programming, he'll need to do something about that keyboard.
>
> Firstly, it says python3 in the title, so use python3
>

I ran the code with python 2.7.  However, python3 is most likely required
for other exercises in the book.  Here are my results:

>>> import turtle
>>> wn = turtle.Screen()
>>> alex = turtle.Turtle()
>>> alex.forward(50)
>>> alex.left(90)
>>> alex.forward(30)
>>> wn.mainloop()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: '_Screen' object has no attribute 'mainloop'
>>>

 Python opened a window and drew the lines.  I don't know turtle, so maybe
this can't be run interactively with wn.mainloop()


> --
> Steven
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/ <http://joelgoldstick.com/stats/birthdays>
http://cc-baseballstats.info/

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#104438

On 2016-03-09 11:55, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2016 08:06 pm, Peter Otten wrote:
>
>> Ömer sarı wrote:
>>
>>> l would like to ask a question as l m a little bit confused .
>>
>> In computing details matter, and in communication odd personal habits
>> distract from the actual message. Please reconsider your use of an "l" as
>> a replacement for "I".
>
> While I don't disagree, it is possible that Ömer sarı is typing on a
> keyboard that doesn't have an I, or makes it difficult to use. The last
> letter of his(?) name is LATIN SMALL LETTER DOTLESS I, which suggests
> possibly a Turkish or Armenian keyboard. I don't know how easy it is to get
> I as opposed to İ (LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DOT ABOVE). So we might like
> to give him a little slack.
>
> But apart from that, I agree: in the long term, if Ömer is going to be
> programming, he'll need to do something about that keyboard.
>
FYI, the uppercase of "ı" is "I" and the lowercase of "İ" is "i".

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#104469

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 05:14 am, MRAB wrote:

> FYI, the uppercase of "ı" is "I" and the lowercase of "İ" is "i".

Very true. Does that tell us anything about the placement and ease of
getting I on a Turkish keyboard? 

I'm just giving the OP the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they have a good
reason for typing l instead of I. Probably not though.


-- 
Steven

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#104471

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 05:14 am, MRAB wrote:
>
>> FYI, the uppercase of "ı" is "I" and the lowercase of "İ" is "i".
>
> Very true. Does that tell us anything about the placement and ease of
> getting I on a Turkish keyboard?
>
> I'm just giving the OP the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they have a good
> reason for typing l instead of I. Probably not though.

A Turkish keyboard should have dotless and dotted, uppercase and
lowercase, all easily typed. Here's one example layout (I've no idea
how prevalent this is):

http://ascii-table.com/img/keyboard-179.png

But depending on the exact layout used, it might be very easy to typo
I as l, and it may well not be noticed. My guess is that there's no
good reason to mistype, but plenty of good reasons for mistyping to
happen. :)

ChrisA

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#104474

Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>:

> A Turkish keyboard should have dotless and dotted, uppercase and
> lowercase, all easily typed.

BTW, typing any useful Unicode character is a major unsolved problem. I
have created this text file that contains a lot of unicode characters
with their code points. Every once in a while I have to open the file
and copy and paste a character to, say, a Usenet posting. Cumbersome but
necessary.


Marko

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#104475

Marko Rauhamaa writes:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>:
>
>> A Turkish keyboard should have dotless and dotted, uppercase and
>> lowercase, all easily typed.
>
> BTW, typing any useful Unicode character is a major unsolved
> problem. I have created this text file that contains a lot of unicode
> characters with their code points. Every once in a while I have to
> open the file and copy and paste a character to, say, a Usenet
> posting. Cumbersome but necessary.

C-u M-x python3 -c 'print("\N{TURTLE}", end = "")' RET :)

🐢

Though I only see this character as an over-wide box containing the
numeric code 01F422.

Usually I go to the web and search for the character code. Python
unicodedata module does not seem to help if one doesn't know or guess
the exact name, but if one does, unicodedata.lookup("TURTLE") works.

Aha! http://unicode-search.net/unicode-namesearch.pl?term=TURTLE

python3 -c 'print("\N{KANGXI RADICAL TURTLE}")'

⿔

That one shows as a glyph for me, both in Emacs in a terminal and in
Firefox.

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#104476 — Text input with keyboard, via input methods (was: turtle ??)

Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> writes:

> BTW, typing any useful Unicode character is a major unsolved problem.

You typed a good number of Unicode characters in that sentence alone.
ASCII is a simple subset of Unicode.

I suppose you meant to refer to typing some character not mapped to a
single keystroke on a US-English keyboard kayout.

You're right, that is a major problem.

As for how solved it is, that depends on what you're hoping for as a
solution.

The conventional solution, which I find to be quite useful for typing
characters from a great many different writing systems, is an
<URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_method> customised to
particular writing systems.

My primary input method is one which lets me type typical English text
and also easily input a broad range of useful characters with a few
mnenonic two- or three-key sequences.

> I have created this text file that contains a lot of unicode
> characters with their code points. Every once in a while I have to
> open the file and copy and paste a character to, say, a Usenet
> posting. Cumbersome but necessary.

Hopefully your operating system has a good input method system, with
many input methods available to choose from. May you find a decent
default there.

-- 
 \                  “It is … incumbent upon us to recognize that it is |
  `\    inappropriate for religion to play any role in issues of state |
_o__)        [of] a modern democracy.” —Lawrence M. Krauss, 2012-05-28 |
Ben Finney

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#104481 — Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods (was: turtle ??)

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 12:59:10 PM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote:
> Marko Rauhamaa  writes:
> 
> > BTW, typing any useful Unicode character is a major unsolved problem.
> 
> You typed a good number of Unicode characters in that sentence alone.
> ASCII is a simple subset of Unicode.
> 
> I suppose you meant to refer to typing some character not mapped to a
> single keystroke on a US-English keyboard kayout.
> 
> You're right, that is a major problem.
> 
> As for how solved it is, that depends on what you're hoping for as a
> solution.
> 
> The conventional solution, which I find to be quite useful for typing
> characters from a great many different writing systems, is an
> <URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_method> customised to
> particular writing systems.
> 
> My primary input method is one which lets me type typical English text
> and also easily input a broad range of useful characters with a few
> mnenonic two- or three-key sequences.
> 
> > I have created this text file that contains a lot of unicode
> > characters with their code points. Every once in a while I have to
> > open the file and copy and paste a character to, say, a Usenet
> > posting. Cumbersome but necessary.
> 
> Hopefully your operating system has a good input method system, with
> many input methods available to choose from. May you find a decent
> default there.

I believe that these discussions would be useful (and the current state
of input methods better-ed if we distinguish different levels of input-methods.

Basically ranging from low-setup, hi-perchar cost to hi-setup low-perchar cost

At the one extreme we have
use google, hunt around, cut-paste

At the other use a special hardware keyboard
[I believe Steven had sometime showed something like this
https://plus.google.com/102786751626732213960/posts/2uJzHw1JHeN?pid=5802841322291932386&oid=102786751626732213960
]

In between these two extremes we have many possibilities
- ibus/gchar etc
- compose key
- alternate keyboard layouts

Using all these levels judiciously seems to me a good idea...

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#104581 — Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods

On 03/09/2016 11:54 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
[...]
> In between these two extremes we have many possibilities
> - ibus/gchar etc
> - compose key
> - alternate keyboard layouts
>
> Using all these levels judiciously seems to me a good idea...
>
FWIW -- in Mint Linux you can select the compose key with the following:

Preferences->Keyboard->Layouts->Options->Position of Compose Key

then check the box(s) you want.

For those unfamiliar with it, to use it you press your selected compose key followed by a 
sequence of characters (usually 2 but sometimes more).

A couple examples--
n~ gives ñ     u" gives ü    oo gives °  (degree sign)
Here's a cute one:  CCCP gives ☭  (hammer & sickle)

This gives you (relatively) easy access to a large range of 'special' characters.

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#104610 — Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods

On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 10:21:35 AM UTC+5:30, Larry Hudson wrote:
> On 03/09/2016 11:54 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> [...]
> > In between these two extremes we have many possibilities
> > - ibus/gchar etc
> > - compose key
> > - alternate keyboard layouts
> >
> > Using all these levels judiciously seems to me a good idea...
> >
> FWIW -- in Mint Linux you can select the compose key with the following:
> 
> Preferences->Keyboard->Layouts->Options->Position of Compose Key
> 
> then check the box(s) you want.
> 
> For those unfamiliar with it, to use it you press your selected compose key followed by a 
> sequence of characters (usually 2 but sometimes more).
> 
> A couple examples--
> n~ gives ñ     u" gives ü    oo gives °  (degree sign)
> Here's a cute one:  CCCP gives ☭  (hammer & sickle)
> 
> This gives you (relatively) easy access to a large range of 'special' characters.

Can be more heavily parameterized with this
https://github.com/rrthomas/pointless-xcompose
[Note the uim install]

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#104499 — Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods

Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au>:

> As for how solved it is, that depends on what you're hoping for as a
> solution.
>
> [...]
>
> Hopefully your operating system has a good input method system, with
> many input methods available to choose from. May you find a decent
> default there.

I don't have an answer. I have requirements, though:

 * I should be able to get the character by knowing its glyph (shape).

 * It should be very low-level and work system-wide, preferably over the
   network (I'm typing this over the network).

The solution may require a touch screen and a canvas where I can draw
with my fingers.

The solution may have to be implemented in the keyboard.

Or maybe we'll have to wait for brain-implantable bluetooth tranceivers.
Then, we'd just think of the character and it would appear on the
screen.


Marko

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#104504 — Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 4:21:15 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Ben Finney :
> 
> > As for how solved it is, that depends on what you're hoping for as a
> > solution.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Hopefully your operating system has a good input method system, with
> > many input methods available to choose from. May you find a decent
> > default there.
> 
> I don't have an answer. I have requirements, though:
> 
>  * I should be able to get the character by knowing its glyph (shape).
> 
>  * It should be very low-level and work system-wide, preferably over the
>    network (I'm typing this over the network).
> 
> The solution may require a touch screen and a canvas where I can draw
> with my fingers.
> 
> The solution may have to be implemented in the keyboard.
> 
> Or maybe we'll have to wait for brain-implantable bluetooth tranceivers.
> Then, we'd just think of the character and it would appear on the
> screen.

Lets say you wrote/participated in a million-line C/C++ codebase.
And lets say you would/could redo it in super-duper language 'L' (could but need not be python)
Even if you believe in a 1000-fold improvement going C → L, you'd still need
to input a 1000 lines of L-code.

How would you do it? With character recognition?

OTOH…

I am ready to bet that on your keyboard maybe US-104, maybe something more
exotic:

- There is a key that is marked something that looks like 'A'
- Pounding that 'A' produces something that looks like 'a'
' And to get a 'A' from the 'A' you need to do a SHIFT-A

IOW its easy to forget that typing ASCII on a us-104 still needs input-methods

Its just that these need to become more reified/firstclass going from the
<100 chars of ASCII to the million+ of unicode.

Or if I may invoke programmer-intuition:

a. If one had to store a dozen values, a dozen variables would be ok
b. For a thousand, we'd like a -- maybe simple -- datastructure like an array/dict
c. For a million (or billion) the data structure would need to be sophisticated

The problem with unicode is not that 100000 is a large number but that
we are applying a-paradigm to c-needs.

Some of my --admittedly faltering -- attempts to correct this:

http://blog.languager.org/2015/01/unicode-and-universe.html
http://blog.languager.org/2015/03/whimsical-unicode.html
http://blog.languager.org/2015/02/universal-unicode.html

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#104526 — Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
> I don't have an answer. I have requirements, though:
>
>  * I should be able to get the character by knowing its glyph (shape).
>
>  * It should be very low-level and work system-wide, preferably over the
>    network (I'm typing this over the network).

This probably doesn't meet all your needs, but there are web services
that get you to draw an approximation of a glyph, then present you
with some possible unicode characters to match. I thought there were a
couple of these sites, but on a quick search, I only find one for
unicode glyphs: http://shapecatcher.com/  and another one for TeX
codes: http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html

-- 
Jerry

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#104527 — Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods

Jerry Hill <malaclypse2@gmail.com>:

> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
>> I don't have an answer. I have requirements, though:
>>
>>  * I should be able to get the character by knowing its glyph (shape).
>>
>>  * It should be very low-level and work system-wide, preferably over the
>>    network (I'm typing this over the network).
>
> [...]
> http://shapecatcher.com/

Nice!

Now I need this integrated with the keyboard.


Marko

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#104552 — Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 2:13 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
> Jerry Hill <malaclypse2@gmail.com>:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
>>> I don't have an answer. I have requirements, though:
>>>
>>>  * I should be able to get the character by knowing its glyph (shape).
>>>
>>>  * It should be very low-level and work system-wide, preferably over the
>>>    network (I'm typing this over the network).
>>
>> [...]
>> http://shapecatcher.com/
>
> Nice!
>
> Now I need this integrated with the keyboard.

Better still, with a Cintiq or something! I know a few artists who
would love playing with that.

ChrisA

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#104555 — Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods

Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> writes:

> Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au>:
>
>> As for how solved it is, that depends on what you're hoping for as a
>> solution.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Hopefully your operating system has a good input method system, with
>> many input methods available to choose from. May you find a decent
>> default there.
>
> I don't have an answer. I have requirements, though:
>
>  * I should be able to get the character by knowing its glyph (shape).
>
>  * It should be very low-level and work system-wide, preferably over the
>    network (I'm typing this over the network).

I think you are a Gnus user so you probably already know about
insert-char (usually bound to C-x 8 RET though I've re-bound it to my
"insert" key).  Because Emacs's completion facility works with embedded
words you can see Unicode characters with names that include, for
example, "dotless" or "diagonal".  It's not quite "by knowing its glyph"
but it's helped me out many times.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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#104559 — Re: Text input with keyboard, via input methods

Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>:

> Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> writes:
>>  * I should be able to get the character by knowing its glyph
>>    (shape).
>>
>>  * It should be very low-level and work system-wide, preferably over
>>    the network (I'm typing this over the network).
>
> I think you are a Gnus user so you probably already know about
> insert-char (usually bound to C-x 8 RET though I've re-bound it to my
> "insert" key). Because Emacs's completion facility works with embedded
> words you can see Unicode characters with names that include, for
> example, "dotless" or "diagonal". It's not quite "by knowing its
> glyph" but it's helped me out many times.

At least it works over the network.


Marko

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