Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.python > #57152 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-10-20 10:56 -0700 |
| Last post | 2013-10-25 14:49 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 123 — 27 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python
Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-20 10:56 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC victorgarcianet@gmail.com - 2013-10-20 15:10 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2013-10-22 23:48 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-23 00:25 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 09:42 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2013-10-23 13:51 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-20 20:35 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-21 07:46 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 10:55 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-21 23:41 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 10:14 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-22 02:32 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 12:00 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 23:20 +1100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 17:27 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 08:43 +1100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-10-22 14:04 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 15:22 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 15:39 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 16:40 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 17:50 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2013-10-22 09:52 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2013-10-22 16:53 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 17:23 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2013-10-22 10:35 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 17:37 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 18:37 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-10-22 18:42 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 18:49 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 04:40 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 04:55 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2013-10-25 12:55 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 15:18 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-25 10:35 -0400
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 11:26 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-25 19:06 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 19:40 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 11:45 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 11:59 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:09 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:15 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 20:02 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:18 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2013-10-26 14:31 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 15:10 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-27 15:14 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-27 19:15 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-28 08:44 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-28 02:31 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 20:36 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:49 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:14 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 07:11 +1100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 13:29 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:36 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-26 02:42 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:44 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 07:48 +1100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:56 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:02 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 22:11 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:37 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 22:56 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 13:36 +1100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 17:15 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 18:58 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 20:26 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 15:36 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 15:15 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 13:14 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-21 16:29 -0400
Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 20:40 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-21 04:08 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 13:26 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-21 14:03 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 16:04 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-21 23:45 -0400
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 21:24 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 05:25 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-10-22 04:39 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 08:04 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 17:09 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-22 13:20 -0400
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 11:46 -0400
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 16:52 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-10-22 09:03 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 10:50 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:11 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 18:18 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-22 15:20 -0400
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 19:27 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 20:38 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 20:00 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 20:32 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-10-22 13:08 -0500
Re: Python Front-end to GCC MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-10-22 19:16 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:16 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:22 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:28 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-22 18:11 -0400
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 17:28 +1100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 22:47 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 14:23 -0400
Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:40 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 19:58 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 14:40 -0400
Re: Python Front-end to GCC alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 11:36 +1000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 21:04 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 07:06 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-10-22 19:47 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 13:56 -0400
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 22:05 -0600
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 07:13 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 14:25 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 14:33 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 22:38 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 22:35 +0100
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-10-22 08:55 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-22 02:08 -0700
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 10:10 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-10-22 15:51 +0000
Re: Python Front-end to GCC Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2013-10-24 08:47 +0200
Re: Python Front-end to GCC xDog Walker <thudfoo@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:49 -0700
Page 3 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 Next page →
| From | rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 12:15 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <516031ed-baca-4ffe-acbd-2e7d30e9949b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #57549 |
On Saturday, October 26, 2013 12:39:09 AM UTC+5:30, zipher wrote: > On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:59 AM, rusi wrote: > > > > I dont see how thats any more relevant than: > > Whats the hex value of the add instruction? > > > You "don't see". That is correct. Btw, I believe the hex value for > the add instruction on the (8-bit) Intel 8088 is x0. Now what were > you saying? There are a dozen different (hex values) for the add instruction -- depending on operand sizes/directions/immediate-operand/special-registers etc. So just as there is one add instruction with many hex values there is one nan as a concept with many different hex values. Are you arguing for the sake of arguing? If so lets at least agree on what you are arguing about!!
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 20:02 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1535.1382727741.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
On 25/10/2013 19:45, Mark Janssen wrote: >>>>>>> OTOH why in particular would you want to initialise them with zeros? I >>>>>>> often initialise arrays to nan which is useful for debugging. >>>>> >>>>> Is this some kind of joke? What has this list become? >>>> >>>> It's a useful debugging technique to initialize memory to distinctive >>>> values that should never occur in real data. >>> >>> If you're doing this, you're doing something wrong. Please give me >>> the hex value for NaN so I can initialize with my array. >> >> It is clear that you know as much about debugging as you do about objects >> and message passing [...] can see why the >> BDFL described you as an embarrassment, and if he didn't, he certainly >> should have done. > > Clearly the python list has been taken over by TheKooks. Notice he > did not respond to the request. Since we are talking about digital > computers (with digital memory), I'm really curious what the hex value > for NaN is to initialize my arrays.... > > All hail chairman Meow. Dismissed. > Reinstating http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-ideas/19908/ where you're described as a quack, which I assume in this context makes you an expert on duck typing, which should obviously be abbreviated to ducking. As for the hex value for Nan who really gives a toss? The whole point is that you initialise to something that you do not expect to see. Do you not have a text book that explains this concept? -- Python is the second best programming language in the world. But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer Mark Lawrence
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 12:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1537.1382728745.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
> As for the hex value for Nan who really gives a toss? The whole point is > that you initialise to something that you do not expect to see. Do you not > have a text book that explains this concept? No, I don't think there is a textbook that explains such a concept of initializing memory to anything but 0 -- UNLESS you're from Stupid University. Thanks for providing fodder... Mark Janssen, Ph.D. Tacoma, WA
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-26 14:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <l4hccp$djl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57551 |
On 10/25/2013 12:18 PM, Mark Janssen wrote:
>> As for the hex value for Nan who really gives a toss? The whole point is
>> that you initialise to something that you do not expect to see. Do you not
>> have a text book that explains this concept?
>
> No, I don't think there is a textbook that explains such a concept of
> initializing memory to anything but 0 -- UNLESS you're from Stupid
> University.
>
> Thanks for providing fodder...
>
> Mark Janssen, Ph.D.
> Tacoma, WA
What a mess of a discussion.
First off, this is mostly a C/C++ issue, not a Python issue,
because Python generally doesn't let you see uninitialized memory.
Second, filling newly allocated memory with an illegal value
is a classic debugging technique. Visual C/C++ uses it
when you build in debug mode. Wikipedia has an explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_number_%28programming%29#Magic_debug_values
Microsoft Visual C++ uses 0xBAADF00D. In valgrind, there's
a "-malloc-fill" option, and you can specify a hex value.
There's a performance penalty for filling large areas of memory
so it's usually done in debug mode only, and is sometimes causes
programs with bugs to behave differently when built in debug
vs. release mode.
Sigh.
John Nagle
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-26 15:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1618.1382825443.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57663 |
> What a mess of a discussion. I see the big man stepping in to answer for his homies, but while his explanation satisfies their question of "well why do these magic values get used then, if what Mark says is true?", it doesn't address the real confusion: What is the difference between "script" code (like Javascript and visual) made for the screen (where such magic values are utilized) and compiled source (made for the machine)? And that is where John, while benevolent, hasn't done the homework of computer science. Ask him. Mark
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 15:14 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1666.1382912062.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57663 |
> I see the big man stepping in to answer for his homies After re-reading the discussion, I wish to retract what I'm saying here and apologize to John who seems like a decent guy. >, but while his > explanation satisfies their question of "well why do these magic > values get used then, if what Mark says is true?", it doesn't address > the real confusion: What is the difference between "script" code > (like Javascript and visual) made for the screen (where such magic > values are utilized) and compiled source (made for the machine)? And > that is where John, while benevolent, hasn't done the homework of > computer science. Ask him. Otherwise, most of this, while sloppy, still stands. Mark Janssen Tacoma, Washington
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 19:15 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <31b980aa-36f8-45b1-a86a-5a8b703d0644@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #57768 |
On Monday, October 28, 2013 3:44:14 AM UTC+5:30, zipher wrote: > Otherwise, most of this, while sloppy, still stands. Yes All your quotes are unattributed So your discussion is both sloppy and meaningless
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-28 08:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1688.1382949855.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57780 |
On 28/10/2013 02:15, rusi wrote: > On Monday, October 28, 2013 3:44:14 AM UTC+5:30, zipher wrote: >> Otherwise, most of this, while sloppy, still stands. > > Yes > > All your quotes are unattributed > > So your discussion is both sloppy and meaningless > Check out his Twitter feed. I quote "Can women do a little more than suck the cock of the anti-Christ?" Enough said? -- Python is the second best programming language in the world. But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer Mark Lawrence
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-28 02:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8a67cdf5-90cc-4d94-a0ba-d4f711578234@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #57800 |
On Monday, October 28, 2013 2:14:35 PM UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 28/10/2013 02:15, rusi wrote: > > On Monday, October 28, 2013 3:44:14 AM UTC+5:30, zipher wrote: > >> Otherwise, most of this, while sloppy, still stands. > > > > Yes > > > > All your quotes are unattributed > > > > So your discussion is both sloppy and meaningless > > > Check out his Twitter feed. I quote "Can women do a little more than > suck the cock of the anti-Christ?" Enough said? You told us recently, Mark, that you carry the load of Asperger, depression and fatigue (if I remember correctly). Also that when you said things you later regretted it was because the Asperger was out of control. Would you not prefer a little kindness at your worst times rather than a peremptory show of the letter-of-the-law? Now look at the other Mark. Does he not seem borderline crazy? Do we need to get him further down with unnecessary references to things outside of here? [No pretenses to doing a great job myself. The excuse is that I dont know how to encourage the human being and discourage the delusions of grandeur] Just a personal suggestion: When you are funny you are fun to have around. When you start pulling the punches... Dont we have enough stuttering slobbering semi-literate minus-IQ heavyweights around here? Do we need one more? And BTW in the other thread, in case it was not clear, I found your posts -- starting with "Get a sex-manual" -- funny. The surrounding provocations were quite unbearable.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 20:36 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1538.1382729799.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
On 25/10/2013 20:18, Mark Janssen wrote: >> As for the hex value for Nan who really gives a toss? The whole point is >> that you initialise to something that you do not expect to see. Do you not >> have a text book that explains this concept? > > No, I don't think there is a textbook that explains such a concept of > initializing memory to anything but 0 -- UNLESS you're from Stupid > University. > > Thanks for providing fodder... > > Mark Janssen, Ph.D. > Tacoma, WA > We've been discussing *DEBUGGING*. If you can't be bothered to read what's written please do not respond. -- Python is the second best programming language in the world. But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer Mark Lawrence
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 12:49 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1540.1382730576.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
>>> As for the hex value for Nan who really gives a toss? The whole point is >>> that you initialise to something that you do not expect to see. Do you >>> not have a text book that explains this concept? >> >> No, I don't think there is a textbook that explains such a concept of >> initializing memory to anything but 0 -- UNLESS you're from Stupid >> University. >> >> Thanks for providing fodder... > > We've been discussing *DEBUGGING*. Are you making it LOUD and *clear* that you don't know what you're talking about? Input: Yes/no MarkJanssen
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 21:14 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1543.1382732077.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
[sorry if things below are a bit messy] On 25/10/2013 20:49, Mark Janssen wrote: >>>> As for the hex value for Nan who really gives a toss? The whole point is >>>> that you initialise to something that you do not expect to see. Do you >>>> not have a text book that explains this concept? >>> >>> No, I don't think there is a textbook that explains such a concept of >>> initializing memory to anything but 0 -- UNLESS you're from Stupid >>> University. >>> >>> Thanks for providing fodder... >> >> We've been discussing *DEBUGGING*. > > Are you making it LOUD and *clear* that you don't know what you're > talking about? > > Input: Yes/no no Now please explain what you do not understand about the data below that's been written by Oscar Benjamin, myself and Ned Batchelder, specifically the use of the word *DEBUGGING*. Is this a word that does not appear in your text books? If that is in fact the case would you like one of the experienced practical programmers on this list to explain it to you? Have you ever bothered to read "The Zen of Python", specifically the bit about "Practicality beats purity"? > > MarkJanssen > On 25/10/2013 04:40, Mark Lawrence wrote:> On 22/10/2013 18:37, Oscar Benjamin wrote: > >> >> OTOH why in particular would you want to initialise them with zeros? I >> often initialise arrays to nan which is useful for debugging. It means >> that you can see if you made a mistake when you were supposed to have >> initialised everything to useful values. In many contexts it would be >> difficult to distinguish between a valid zero and a zero because you >> haven't yet inserted a value. This kind of error can show up more >> quickly if you don't zero the memory since the uninitialised values >> will often be out of range for what you expected and will give very >> noticeable results (such as a seg-fault). >> > > In his book "Writing Solid Code" Steve Maguire states that he > initialises with 0xA3 for Macintosh programs, and that Microsoft uses > 0xCC, for exactly the reasons that you describe above. > On 25/10/2013 15:35, Ned Batchelder wrote:> On 10/25/13 7:55 AM, Mark Janssen wrote: >> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Mark Lawrence >> <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>> On 22/10/2013 18:37, Oscar Benjamin wrote: >>>> OTOH why in particular would you want to initialise them with zeros? I >>>> often initialise arrays to nan which is useful for debugging. >> Is this some kind of joke? What has this list become? >> > > It's a useful debugging technique to initialize memory to distinctive > values that should never occur in real data. Perhaps it better to say, > "pre-initialize". If the program is working correctly, then that data > will be written over with actual initial values, and you'll never see > the distinctive values. But if your program does encounter one of those > values, it's clear that there's a bug that needs to be fixed. > Additionally, if you have a number of different distinctive values, then > the actual value encountered provides a clue as to what might have gone > wrong. > > In an array of floats, initializing to NaN would be very useful, since > NaNs propagate through calculations, or raise exceptions. > > --Ned. -- Python is the second best programming language in the world. But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer Mark Lawrence
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-26 07:11 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1544.1382732271.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 26 October 2013 06:18, Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote: > > As for the hex value for Nan who really gives a toss? The whole point is > > that you initialise to something that you do not expect to see. Do you > not > > have a text book that explains this concept? > > No, I don't think there is a textbook that explains such a concept of > initializing memory to anything but 0 -- UNLESS you're from Stupid > University. > > Thanks for providing fodder... > I know I'm replying to a someone who has trolled many threads over multiple years ... or as I'm now starting to suspect, possibly a bot, but I'll give him (it?) this one chance to show the capability to read and learn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexspeak Search for 0xBAADF00D; 0xBADDCAFE; and (in particular) OxDEADBEEF. These are historical examples of this technique used by major companies. Tim Delaney
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 13:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1545.1382732985.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
>>> We've been discussing *DEBUGGING*. >> >> Are you making it LOUD and *clear* that you don't know what you're >> talking about? > > Input: Yes/no > > no > > Now please explain what you do not understand about the data below that's > been written by Oscar Benjamin, myself and Ned Batchelder, specifically the > use of the word *DEBUGGING*. Is this a word that does not appear in your > text books? Yes. And how do I explain what I do NOT understand? > If that is in fact the case would you like one of the > experienced practical programmers on this list to explain it to you? N/A > Have > you ever bothered to read "The Zen of Python", specifically the bit about > "Practicality beats purity"? Yes, I have. And if you have read that, you know that preceding that is the rule "Special cases aren't enough to break the rules." You sir, have broken the rules, you should not be preaching "practicality" if you don't know the rules. Now take your choir boys there and sit down. Mark P.S. >> In his book "Writing Solid Code" Steve Maguire states that he >> initialises with 0xA3 for Macintosh programs, and that Microsoft uses >> 0xCC, for exactly the reasons that you describe above. I will be glad to discuss all these arcane measures, when you aren't all being asswipes. >> It's a useful debugging technique to initialize memory to distinctive >> values that should never occur in real data. As I said, you're going something wrong. > Python is the second best programming language in the world. > But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer When you're ready to make Python the best programming language in the world, re-engage. -- MarkJ Tacoma, Washington
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 21:36 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1546.1382733426.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
On 25/10/2013 21:11, Tim Delaney wrote: > On 26 October 2013 06:18, Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com > <mailto:dreamingforward@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > As for the hex value for Nan who really gives a toss? The whole > point is > > that you initialise to something that you do not expect to see. > Do you not > > have a text book that explains this concept? > > No, I don't think there is a textbook that explains such a concept of > initializing memory to anything but 0 -- UNLESS you're from Stupid > University. > > Thanks for providing fodder... > > > I know I'm replying to a someone who has trolled many threads over > multiple years ... or as I'm now starting to suspect, possibly a bot, > but I'll give him (it?) this one chance to show the capability to read > and learn. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexspeak > > Search for 0xBAADF00D; 0xBADDCAFE; and (in particular) OxDEADBEEF. These > are historical examples of this technique used by major companies. > > Tim Delaney > > I can't see it being a bot on the grounds that a bot wouldn't be smart enough to snip a URL that referred to itself as a quack. Mind you, the thought of a bot with a Ph.D. is mind boggling. Must have been an absolutely amazing sheep dip to have graduated from, but the Bruces were incredible professors :) Thanks for the link by the way. -- Python is the second best programming language in the world. But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer Mark Lawrence
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-26 02:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <526b2bfa$0$29972$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #57560 |
On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 21:36:42 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: > Mind you, the thought of a bot with a Ph.D. is mind boggling. You can buy degrees on the Internet quite cheaply: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_with_fraudulent_diplomas PhD's are more expensive, which leads me to think that Mark Jenssen is being a tad flexible with the truth when he claims to have one. He certainly hasn't *earned* a PhD in computer science, that is obvious from his posts. -- Steven
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 21:44 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1547.1382733895.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
On 25/10/2013 21:29, Mark Janssen wrote: >>>> We've been discussing *DEBUGGING*. >>> >>> Are you making it LOUD and *clear* that you don't know what you're >>> talking about? >> >> Input: Yes/no >> >> no >> >> Now please explain what you do not understand about the data below that's >> been written by Oscar Benjamin, myself and Ned Batchelder, specifically the >> use of the word *DEBUGGING*. Is this a word that does not appear in your >> text books? > > Yes. > > And how do I explain what I do NOT understand? > >> If that is in fact the case would you like one of the >> experienced practical programmers on this list to explain it to you? > > N/A > >> Have >> you ever bothered to read "The Zen of Python", specifically the bit about >> "Practicality beats purity"? > > Yes, I have. And if you have read that, you know that preceding that > is the rule "Special cases aren't enough to break the rules." > > You sir, have broken the rules, you should not be preaching > "practicality" if you don't know the rules. > > Now take your choir boys there and sit down. > > Mark > > P.S. > >>> In his book "Writing Solid Code" Steve Maguire states that he >>> initialises with 0xA3 for Macintosh programs, and that Microsoft uses >>> 0xCC, for exactly the reasons that you describe above. > > I will be glad to discuss all these arcane measures, when you aren't > all being asswipes. > >>> It's a useful debugging technique to initialize memory to distinctive >>> values that should never occur in real data. > > As I said, you're going something wrong. > >> Python is the second best programming language in the world. >> But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer > > When you're ready to make Python the best programming language in the > world, re-engage. > Please show rather less arrogance. Or are you upset at me as I've reminded you and told everybody else that you've been referred to on a Python list as a quack? I do admit that in your case I find quack very suitable, it has a ring to it that far outweighs troll, which Tim Delany has used fairly recently. -- Python is the second best programming language in the world. But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer Mark Lawrence
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-26 07:48 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1548.1382734110.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 26 October 2013 07:36, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > I can't see it being a bot on the grounds that a bot wouldn't be smart > enough to snip a URL that referred to itself as a quack. > My thought based on some of the responses is that they seem auto-generated, then tweaked - so not a bot per-se, but verging on it. But OTOH, it can also be explained away entirely by (as you previously noted) the Dunning-Kruger effect, with the same uninformed responses trotted out to everything. Not necessarily a troll as I injudiciously claimed in my previous post (I'd just woken up after 4 hours sleep - my apologies to the list). Anyway, not going to get sucked into this bottomless hole. Tim Delaney
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 21:56 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1549.1382734636.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
On 25/10/2013 21:48, Tim Delaney wrote: > But OTOH, it can also be explained away entirely by (as you previously > noted) the Dunning-Kruger effect, with the same uninformed responses > trotted out to everything. It was rusi who first mentioned this, I merely replied in my normal dead pan way. Slight aside, I spelt your surname incorrectly a few minutes ago whilst replying elsewhere, I do apologise. -- Python is the second best programming language in the world. But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer Mark Lawrence
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-25 14:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1550.1382734926.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #57279 |
>> But OTOH, it can also be explained away entirely by (as you previously >> noted) the Dunning-Kruger effect, with the same uninformed responses >> trotted out to everything. > > It was rusi who first mentioned this, I merely replied in my normal dead pan > way. > > Slight aside, I spelt your surname incorrectly a few minutes ago whilst > replying elsewhere, I do apologise. What is this? The circle-jerk list? I make some points on the last couple of threads and you all get bent-out of shape, then gather around each other as if you're all in a cancer ward.... -- MarkJ Tacoma, Washington
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 3 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.python
csiph-web