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Python GUI?

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  Python GUI? eamonnrea@gmail.com - 2013-09-11 13:55 -0700
    Re: Python GUI? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-09-11 23:05 -0600
      Re: Python GUI? eamonnrea@gmail.com - 2013-09-12 09:03 -0700
        Re: Python GUI? Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 17:23 +0100
          Re: Python GUI? Dave Cook <davecook@nowhere.net> - 2013-09-12 18:50 +0000
            Re: Python GUI? Dave Cook <davecook@nowhere.net> - 2013-09-12 21:36 +0000
        Re: Python GUI? Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-09-12 09:51 -0700
          Re: Python GUI? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 07:55 -0700
            Re: Python GUI? Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-09-17 09:19 -0700
              Re: Python GUI? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 09:51 -0700
                Re: Python GUI? Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-09-17 10:57 -0700
            Re: Python GUI? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-09-18 14:10 -0600
        Re: Python GUI? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 21:02 -0600
          Re: Python GUI? eamonnrea@gmail.com - 2013-09-13 11:23 -0700
            Re: Python GUI? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 22:03 -0600
              Re: Python GUI? Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2013-09-14 19:15 +0200
                Re: Python GUI? Dave Cook <davecook@nowhere.net> - 2013-09-15 22:13 +0000
        Re: Python GUI? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 21:18 -0600
      Re: Python GUI? Dave Cook <davecook@nowhere.net> - 2013-09-12 18:35 +0000
    Re: Python GUI? Jerry Hill <malaclypse2@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 13:09 -0400
    Re: Python GUI? Ian Foote <ian@feete.org> - 2013-09-12 21:17 +0100
    Re: Python GUI? Peter <peter.milliken@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 20:39 -0700
      Re: Python GUI? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 22:15 -0600
    Re: Python GUI? CM <cmpython@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 22:14 -0700
    Re: Python GUI? Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2013-09-13 09:27 -0400
      Re: Python GUI? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-09-13 15:47 -0400
    Re: Python GUI? eamonnrea@gmail.com - 2013-09-13 10:31 -0700
      Re: Python GUI? John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2013-09-13 18:39 +0000
        Re: Python GUI? Joe Junior <joe.fbs.junior@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 15:49 -0300
          Re: Python GUI? eamonnrea@gmail.com - 2013-09-13 12:37 -0700
            Re: Python GUI? Joe Junior <joe.fbs.junior@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 16:50 -0300
              Re: Python GUI? eamonnrea@gmail.com - 2013-09-13 13:40 -0700
            Re: Python GUI? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-14 00:21 +0000
              Re: Python GUI? eamonnrea@gmail.com - 2013-09-13 17:38 -0700
                Re: Python GUI? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-09-14 11:23 +1000
                  Re: Python GUI? eamonnrea@gmail.com - 2013-09-14 04:54 -0700
                    Re: Python GUI? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-14 22:07 +1000
            Re: Python GUI? Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-09-14 02:05 +0000
          Re: Python GUI? Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-09-13 19:56 +0000
            Re: Python GUI? eamonnrea@gmail.com - 2013-09-13 13:40 -0700
      Re: Python GUI? llanitedave <llanitedave@veawb.coop> - 2013-09-18 19:47 -0700
    Re: Python GUI? petmertens@gmail.com - 2013-09-13 10:51 -0700
    Re: Python GUI? Metallicow <metaliobovinus@gmail.com> - 2013-09-20 11:34 -0700
      Re: Python GUI? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-09-20 13:49 -0600
        Re: Python GUI? Metallicow <metaliobovinus@gmail.com> - 2013-09-20 12:58 -0700
          Re: Python GUI? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-09-20 16:49 -0600
      Re: Python GUI? Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-09-21 00:34 +0100

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#54083

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On 11/09/13 21:55, eamonnrea@gmail.com wrote:
> There are a few known GUI toolkits out there, and the main ones
> from what I can tell are:
> 
> Tkinter -- Simple to use, but limited PyQT -- You have a GUI
> designer, so I'm not going to count that PyGTK -- Gnome officially
> back this I think wxPython -- Very nice, very professional,
> approved by Python creator, but alas hard to get started with
> 
> So, what are your personal preferences and why? Why use X over Y?
> 
> I, personally, really like wxPython, but I also really like
> Tkinter. I've messed with PyGTK, but I'd choose wxPython over it.
> 
> Have you got anything to say on what one I should be
> using(excluding PyQT because it has a D&D designer >:( )? Is
> Tkinter really dead? Should I stick with wxPython?
> 
> It's might be similar to the "What language to use" argument, or
> the "What background to code on" argument(I prefer darker
> backgrounds xD Please don't argue about this though!), in the sense
> that there is *no* answer, just preference.
> 
> Also, with wxPython, it has kind of a "flow" layout like JFrame,
> whereas it will adjust it's layout to look like a native Mac App,
> Windows app or Linux App, correct? It'll look almost identical,
> right? Not that it matters, I'm just curious! :D
> 
> Thanks!
> 

Another GUI toolkit is kivy (kivy.org). It has a focus on supporting a
wide range of platforms, including Android and IOs, and various input
devices (mouse, keyboard, touchscreen, etc).

Kivy is in active development and I think is well worth a look.

Regards,
Ian F
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#54098

I stuck with Tkinter combined with PMW for a very long time, but the lack of extra widgets finally drove me to look elsewhere.

I tried PyQT but didn't have a good experience. I can't remember details, but things just seemed to have little "gotchas" - which the mailing list were very helpful with sorting out, but I found it frustrating to keep asking for help over little items of unexpected behaviour.

I have not tried PyGTK so cannot comment.

I finally decided on wxPython - with my basis of Tkinter (graysons book) it was quite easy to pick up and run with. The wxPython book is quite good and helps get started and using it. I would suggest if you buy and read that, then you will no longer find wxPython difficult to get started with.

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#54100

On 09/12/2013 09:39 PM, Peter wrote:
> I stuck with Tkinter combined with PMW for a very long time, but the
> lack of extra widgets finally drove me to look elsewhere.
> 
> I tried PyQT but didn't have a good experience. I can't remember
> details, but things just seemed to have little "gotchas" - which the
> mailing list were very helpful with sorting out, but I found it
> frustrating to keep asking for help over little items of unexpected
> behaviour.

Interesting. I have used Qt and PyQt, and except for the fact that PyQt
isn't very pythonic (feels like C++ translated directly to Python), I
never had any problems with it.  Maybe since I was already familiar with
signals and slots programming I never found any unexpected behavior[1].
 I've never used Tkinter, and I only ever used wxWidgets once (back when
it was called wxWindows), and the close similarity to MFC at the time
(which I was fleeing) didn't sit right with me.  Also the flexible
layout that Qt and Gtk encouraged was a big plus in my mind.  I guess
you like what you get used to.

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#54102

> Tkinter -- Simple to use, but limited
> 
> PyQT -- You have a GUI designer, so I'm not going to count that

As others have pointed out, that's nonsensical.  If you don't like the GUI designer, just don't use it.  

> wxPython -- Very nice, very professional, approved by Python creator, but alas hard to get started with

Why is it hard to get started with?  Download the installer, install, and:

import wx
app = wx.App(False)  
frame = wx.Frame(None, -1, "Hello World")
frame.Show(True)
app.MainLoop()

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#54116

On 9/11/13 4:55 PM, eamonnrea@gmail.com wrote:
> Tkinter -- Simple to use, but limited

With the themed widget introduced in Tk 8.5, Tkinter is now a peer to 
the other GUI toolkits in most respects, surpasses them in some (canvas 
widget), and lags behind in just two areas: printing (several 
platform-specific solutions but no cross-platform API) and HTML display 
(a few extensions but no standard widget set).

I've stayed with Tkinter because it fits my brain the best. Old 
complaints about it being ugly or limited no longer hold water.

--Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

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#54135

On 9/13/2013 9:27 AM, Kevin Walzer wrote:
> On 9/11/13 4:55 PM, eamonnrea@gmail.com wrote:
>> Tkinter -- Simple to use, but limited
>
> With the themed widget introduced in Tk 8.5, Tkinter is now a peer to
> the other GUI toolkits in most respects, surpasses them in some (canvas
> widget), and lags behind in just two areas: printing (several
> platform-specific solutions but no cross-platform API) and HTML display
> (a few extensions but no standard widget set).

I would add the ancient and limited image support, both for input and 
canvas output. Modern SVG output instead of ancient (possibly buggy) 
PostScript would be a real improvement.

Otherwise, I have become more impressed with the text widget as I have 
studied the Idle code. Even that does not use everything. I have not 
looked at the text widget in other guis to compare.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#54123

I don't like the idea of being able to drag and drop anything in the programming world. Outside of that, I use D&D programs a lot. I got into GUI programming because I thought that I could get away from them, but I guess not.

Maybe I'm against them because if I can't code, I don't have anything else to do with my time. If I don't program, the only other thing I have to do is... well... nothing. So, because of this, they're making programming easier... by not coding as much. Oh well, guess coding is dead :(

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#54127

In <76784bad-cd6d-48f9-b358-54afb2784f11@googlegroups.com> eamonnrea@gmail.com writes:

> they're making programming easier... by not coding as much. Oh well,
> guess coding is dead :(

Pressing keys on a keyboard was never the hard part of coding.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon@panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

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#54128

On 13 September 2013 15:39, John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> wrote:
> In <76784bad-cd6d-48f9-b358-54afb2784f11@googlegroups.com> eamonnrea@gmail.com writes:
>
>> they're making programming easier... by not coding as much. Oh well,
>> guess coding is dead :(
>
> Pressing keys on a keyboard was never the hard part of coding.
>

Nor the fun part.

Joe

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#54133

I disagree with you. It's not hard, and I apologise if its ever sounded that way, but it is the fun part for me. I love spending hours(days even) debugging.

Well, thanks all for depressing me. Time to give up programming and find something else to do with my life.

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#54137

On 13 September 2013 16:37,  <eamonnrea@gmail.com> wrote:
> I disagree with you. It's not hard, and I apologise if its ever sounded that way, but it is the fun part for me. I love spending hours(days even) debugging.
>
> Well, thanks all for depressing me. Time to give up programming and find something else to do with my life.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

lol! You made my day. :-D

Well, you can always ignore any and all graphical design tools if
you're working alone. And write all those Xs and Ys and widths and
heights all day long. None of the mentioned graphical toolkits forces
you to use them.

And if you like debugging, GUI is not the main dish! Try networking
and concurrent programming, loads and loads of fun!

Of course, that's lots of other unnecessary time consuming stuff you
can do. You just have to use your imagination.

Joe

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#54139

On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:50:13 PM UTC+1, Joe Junior wrote:
> On 13 September 2013 16:37,  <eamonnrea@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I disagree with you. It's not hard, and I apologise if its ever sounded that way, but it is the fun part for me. I love spending hours(days even) debugging.
> 
> >
> 
> > Well, thanks all for depressing me. Time to give up programming and find something else to do with my life.
> 
> > --
> 
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> 
> lol! You made my day. :-D
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you can always ignore any and all graphical design tools if
> 
> you're working alone. And write all those Xs and Ys and widths and
> 
> heights all day long. None of the mentioned graphical toolkits forces
> 
> you to use them.
> 
> 
> 
> And if you like debugging, GUI is not the main dish! Try networking
> 
> and concurrent programming, loads and loads of fun!
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, that's lots of other unnecessary time consuming stuff you
> 
> can do. You just have to use your imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe

I was planning on getting into networking, but like I said, thanks to most people encouraging less coding, I don't code anymore. Glad I made your day though. :-) And "unnecessary time consuming stuff" -- That's my problem. Is *shouldn't* be unnecessary! It should be something that has to be done. That's what annoys me!!

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#54146

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:37:03 -0700, eamonnrea wrote:

> I disagree with you. It's not hard, and I apologise if its ever sounded
> that way, but it is the fun part for me. I love spending hours(days
> even) debugging.
> 
> Well, thanks all for depressing me. Time to give up programming and find
> something else to do with my life.

What on earth are you talking about?

If you like cutting trees down with an axe, the existence of chainsaws 
doesn't stop you from still using an axe.

If you don't like GUI app builders, don't use one.



-- 
Steven

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#54148

But is it efficient to use an axe? Is it sensible to use an axe when there is a chainsaw? No. Eventually, everyone will be using chainsaws, and no one will be using axes. This is my point: to have fun and be productive, but apparently it's not possible.

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#54150

eamonnrea@gmail.com writes:

> But is it efficient to use an axe?

Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or efficiency?

> Is it sensible to use an axe when there is a chainsaw? No.

Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or sensibility?

> Eventually, everyone will be using chainsaws, and no one will be using
> axes.

Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or popularity?

> This is my point: to have fun and be productive, but apparently it's
> not possible.

Who has said that's not possible? If you find using a tool to be both
fun and productive, use it and be happy. If not, use something else.

-- 
 \       “They can not take away our self respect if we do not give it |
  `\                                        to them.” —Mohandas Gandhi |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#54164

On Saturday, September 14, 2013 2:23:03 AM UTC+1, Ben Finney wrote:
> eamonnrea@gmail.com writes:
> 
> 
> 
> > But is it efficient to use an axe?
> 
> 
> 
> Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or efficiency?
> 
> 
> 
> > Is it sensible to use an axe when there is a chainsaw? No.
> 
> 
> 
> Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or sensibility?
> 
> 
> 
> > Eventually, everyone will be using chainsaws, and no one will be using
> 
> > axes.
> 
> 
> 
> Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or popularity?
> 
> 
> 
> > This is my point: to have fun and be productive, but apparently it's
> 
> > not possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Who has said that's not possible? If you find using a tool to be both
> 
> fun and productive, use it and be happy. If not, use something else.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
>  \       “They can not take away our self respect if we do not give it |
> 
>   `\                                        to them.” —Mohandas Gandhi |
> 
> _o__)                                                                  |
> 
> Ben Finney

I hadn't thought of it that way! Thanks! :) I suppose it's like saying "Why use a MacBook when you could use X computer instead? Because I prefer Macs".

Also, this thread hasn't been a troll. I'm completely serious. Why is it when I ask things like this people think I'm trolling?? :(

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#54165

On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 9:54 PM,  <eamonnrea@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, this thread hasn't been a troll. I'm completely serious. Why is it when I ask things like this people think I'm trolling?? :(

This is python-list. We're used to duck-typing. If it looks like a
file, we can write to it... if it looks like a troll, we can "throw
eggs" to try to get it to move away from the rickety bridge, then type
"fee; fie; foe; foo" to get the eggs back.

Hmm. Am I showing my age, or my nerdiness?

ChrisA

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#54151

On 13/9/2013 15:37, eamonnrea@gmail.com wrote:

> I disagree with you. It's not hard, and I apologise if its ever sounded that way, but it is the fun part for me. I love spending hours(days even) debugging.
>
> Well, thanks all for depressing me. Time to give up programming and find something else to do with my life.

I expect that this thread has all been a troll, but on the off chance
that I'm wrong...

I spent 40+ years programming for various companies, and the only GUI
programs I wrote were for my personal use.  Many times I worked on
processors that weren't even in existence yet, and wrote my own tools to
deal with them.  Other times, there were tools I didn't like, and I
wrote my own to replace them.  One example of that is the keypunch.
Another is paper tape punch.  I was really glad to stop dealing with
either of those.

Still other times, tools were great, and I used them with pleasure.  If
the tool was flexible, I extended it.  And if it was limited, I
replaced it, or found a replacement.

Many times I've chosen a particular approach to solving a problem mainly
because it was something I hadn't done before.  On one project, I wrote
code whose job was to generate about 40,000 lines of C++ code that I
didn't feel like typing in, and maintaining afterward.  The data that
described what those lines should look like was under the control of
another (very large) company, and they could change it any time they
liked.  Most changes "just worked."

If you seriously can't find anything interesting to do in software, and
tools to do it with, then maybe you should take up fishing.  With a
bamboo pole and a piece of string.

-- 
DaveA

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#54138

On 2013-09-13, Joe Junior <joe.fbs.junior@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 13 September 2013 15:39, John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> wrote:
>> In <76784bad-cd6d-48f9-b358-54afb2784f11@googlegroups.com>
>> eamonnrea@gmail.com writes:
>>> they're making programming easier... by not coding as much.
>>> Oh well, guess coding is dead :(
>>
>> Pressing keys on a keyboard was never the hard part of coding.
>
> Nor the fun part.

When John Henry was a little baby,
Sittin' on his daddy's knee,
He Telneted to the server with a tiny bit of code, and said:
Emacs will be the death of me, Lord, Lord!
Emacs will be the death of me.

Well John Henry said to the captain:
Go on and bring your toolkit round,
I'll pound out your GUI with a hundred thousand keystrokes,
And throw that GUI Builder down, Lord, Lord!
I'll throw that GUI Builder down.

Well John Henry hammered on his keyboard,
Till is fingers were bloody stumps,
And the very last words that were entered in his .blog were:
GUI Builders are for chumps, Lord, Lord!
Those GUI builders are for chumps.

-- 
Neil Cerutti

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#54140

On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:56:15 PM UTC+1, Neil Cerutti wrote:
> On 2013-09-13, Joe Junior <joe.fbs.junior@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 13 September 2013 15:39, John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> wrote:
> 
> >> In <76784bad-cd6d-48f9-b358-54afb2784f11@googlegroups.com>
> 
> >> eamonnrea@gmail.com writes:
> 
> >>> they're making programming easier... by not coding as much.
> 
> >>> Oh well, guess coding is dead :(
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Pressing keys on a keyboard was never the hard part of coding.
> 
> >
> 
> > Nor the fun part.
> 
> 
> 
> When John Henry was a little baby,
> 
> Sittin' on his daddy's knee,
> 
> He Telneted to the server with a tiny bit of code, and said:
> 
> Emacs will be the death of me, Lord, Lord!
> 
> Emacs will be the death of me.
> 
> 
> 
> Well John Henry said to the captain:
> 
> Go on and bring your toolkit round,
> 
> I'll pound out your GUI with a hundred thousand keystrokes,
> 
> And throw that GUI Builder down, Lord, Lord!
> 
> I'll throw that GUI Builder down.
> 
> 
> 
> Well John Henry hammered on his keyboard,
> 
> Till is fingers were bloody stumps,
> 
> And the very last words that were entered in his .blog were:
> 
> GUI Builders are for chumps, Lord, Lord!
> 
> Those GUI builders are for chumps.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Neil Cerutti

I don't fully understand the meaning of that, but that was a good poem!

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