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Groups > comp.lang.python > #32820

Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

From Roy Smith <roy@panix.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Subject Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
Date 2012-11-06 08:52 -0500
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <roy-2F6600.08523606112012@news.panix.com> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <ecd57712-7016-457e-b079-c87c06603cd4@googlegroups.com> <mailman.3253.1352027618.27098.python-list@python.org> <c1b1476a-a325-4787-a3e5-8f21582e3835@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3269.1352097585.27098.python-list@python.org> <50989a16$0$29980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

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In article <50989a16$0$29980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:

> Shell do not [quote strings, etc] because they 
> are designed for lazy users and merely aim to be "good enough".

Well, sort of.  Or, perhaps more correctly, "Yes, but that's a good 
thing".

Shells are designed to be interactive tools, where most commands get run 
once and thrown away.  As such, you want everything to be easy to type, 
which largely means your fingers never leave the main part of the 
keyboard and you never have to reach for the shift key.

The basic unix shell syntax was laid down in the days of the ASR-33.  It 
was slow, hard to type on, and only had a single case of the alphabet 
(and missing a few pieces of punctuation).  Saving keystrokes was an 
important consideration. 

Programming languages are designed to write programs.  Not only will the 
code be {used, read, maintained} for a much longer period of time, it 
will be used by people other than the original author, and on inputs 
other than originally intended.  It needs to be more robust.

The problem is that shells got pressed into service as programming 
languages.  At that, they suck.  Sure, putting a few commands into a 
file for reuse was great.  Adding a few bells and whistles like 
variables and conditional execution added greatly to the power of the 
tool.  But, by the time we got to 100 (or 1000!) line shell scripts with 
functions, loops, arithmetic, etc, things had clearly gone off into the 
weeds.  It's just the wrong tool for that.

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datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 10:33 -0700
  Re: datetime issue Jason Friedman <jason@powerpull.net> - 2012-09-15 12:58 -0600
  Re: datetime issue Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2012-09-15 12:05 -0700
    Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 12:26 -0700
      Re: datetime issue MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-09-15 21:28 +0100
        Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 22:15 -0700
          Re: datetime issue Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-16 01:53 -0400
            Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 00:51 -0700
              Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:18 -0700
              Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:18 -0700
            Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 00:51 -0700
            Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:25 -0700
              Re: datetime issue Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 09:53 +0000
                Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 03:15 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 10:49 +0000
                Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 03:54 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 11:34 +0000
                Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 04:56 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-09-16 15:31 -0400
                Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-09-16 23:18 +1000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:41 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 11:57 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:06 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 12:23 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 16:54 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-16 20:26 +0100
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2012-09-16 12:32 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:06 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-16 12:30 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 16:52 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2012-09-17 01:09 +0530
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-09-17 14:28 +0100
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:44 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 01:57 +1000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:02 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:02 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2012-09-16 12:28 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 00:18 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 17:47 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-16 20:55 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 18:14 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 00:39 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-01 09:55 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-01 15:08 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 10:32 +1100
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-02 01:25 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-01 21:42 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.demon.co.uk> - 2012-11-02 02:07 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-02 14:11 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-02 09:36 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-02 11:39 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-11-03 00:06 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-04 11:13 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-11-04 22:10 -0800
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-05 17:39 +1100
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-11-04 23:34 -0800
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-05 07:56 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-06 01:20 +1100
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-05 14:59 +0000
                RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-11-06 16:52 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 05:03 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-06 08:52 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups GangGreene <GangGreene@example.com> - 2012-11-06 11:51 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 23:14 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups GangGreene <GangGreene@example.com> - 2012-11-06 19:16 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-07 15:13 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2012-11-07 18:52 +1300
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-07 01:04 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-07 08:15 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-11-05 11:28 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-05 18:20 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-11-05 14:47 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 04:46 +0000
                RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-11-06 17:16 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 22:50 +0000
                RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-11-06 23:08 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-07 00:13 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Hans Mulder <hansmu@xs4all.nl> - 2012-11-09 12:34 +0100
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-10 06:57 +0000
                RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran+python@gmail.com> - 2012-11-07 15:08 +0530
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Hans Mulder <hansmu@xs4all.nl> - 2012-11-09 10:49 +0100
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-09 11:30 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-05 11:41 -0800
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Virgil Stokes <vs@it.uu.se> - 2012-11-04 17:52 +0100
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2012-11-03 07:44 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-11-03 10:24 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-03 16:18 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-04 03:05 +1100
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 11:42 -0600
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-11-04 18:39 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2012-11-09 12:02 +0100
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-09-21 00:22 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-21 15:07 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2012-09-21 22:11 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Hank Gay <hank.gay+eternal.september@gmail.com> - 2012-09-21 20:51 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-22 00:13 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-23 22:25 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 00:07 -0500
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-31 12:32 -0700
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-31 22:33 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-31 23:58 +0000
                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-01 09:44 +0000
                Re: datetime issue Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-16 09:22 -0400
                Re: datetime issue Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 23:32 +1000
                Re: datetime issue Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 00:10 +1000
                gc.get_objects() Matteo Boscolo <matteo.boscolo@boscolini.eu> - 2012-09-17 14:42 +0200
                Re: gc.get_objects() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-17 14:16 +0000
                Re: gc.get_objects() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-18 02:09 +1000
                Re: gc.get_objects() Matteo Boscolo <matteo.boscolo@boscolini.eu> - 2012-09-17 19:23 +0200
                Re: gc.get_objects() Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 17:43 +0000
                Re: datetime issue Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-31 15:11 +0000
                Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-31 12:35 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-31 21:38 +0000
                Re: datetime issue Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 19:23 -0500
                Re: datetime issue Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-11-01 00:36 +0000
                Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-01 15:00 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-02 09:57 +0000
                Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-02 11:43 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 19:09 -0500
                Re: datetime issue Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-01 12:09 +0000
                Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-01 15:28 -0700
              Re: datetime issue "Günther Dietrich" <gd.usenet@spamfence.net> - 2012-09-16 15:22 +0200
                Re: datetime issue pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:43 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-16 15:35 -0400
              Re: datetime issue MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-09-16 16:27 +0100
                Re: datetime issue pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:40 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 01:54 +1000
                Re: datetime issue Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-16 20:23 +0100
                Re: datetime issue pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:40 -0700
              Re: datetime issue Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-16 15:37 -0400
            Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:25 -0700
        Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 22:15 -0700
    Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 12:26 -0700

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