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Groups > comp.lang.python > #32887
| From | Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Subject | Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups |
| Date | 2012-11-07 15:13 +0000 |
| Organization | PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC |
| Message-ID | <k7dtrd$jru$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink) |
| References | (12 earlier) <mailman.3269.1352097585.27098.python-list@python.org> <50989a16$0$29980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <roy-2F6600.08523606112012@news.panix.com> <nornm9-nhi.ln1@crazy-horse.bildanet.com> <509999e0$0$29980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
On 2012-11-06, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 11:51:03 -0500, GangGreene wrote:
>
>> I have just finished a 251 line bash shell script that builds my linux
>> distro from scratch.
>
> "From scratch"? So if you run it on bare metal with no OS, it works?
>
>:-P
>
> But seriously -- bash is a mature, powerful shell. It works well for
> what it does. It has been designed to make it easy[1] to automate
> system admin tasks.
And even people who have been writing bourne/korn/bash shell sripts
for 30 years (crap, I'm old...) still occasionally (or even regularly)
fall into the "spaces in filenames hole". It's just too easy to type
$Var instead of "$Var".
And not setting the "nounset" option can result in hours of fun trying
to find that one place where a variable name is mistyped...
> It would be astonishing if an experienced, competent bash
> programmer couldn't write an installation tool in bash.
Indeed. But when the good folks at RedHat sat down to write an
installation tool back in '95 or so, they chose Python.
> By comparison, few general purpose programming languages (with the
> obvious exception of perl) are designed for system administration as
> their primary purpose.
>
> But... how robust is your script? How many bugs does it contain?
> Chances are you will only use it a handful of times, on the same
> system. That's not a lot of testing to be sure that it is free of
> bugs, and robust against unexpected input.
>
> Hell, even widely used and distributed install scripts written by
> companies with the resources of Ubuntu and Red Hat have a distressing
> tendency to break. Or worse, to behave in unexpected ways.
That's not really helping your argument, since RedHat's install
scripts have been written in Pyton since forever...
> In my opinion, control structures like "for" and "if" in bash are
> hard to use, hard to read, easy to get wrong, give cryptic error
> messages when you do get them wrong, and are ugly. Tests are
> obfuscated, and as always, the fact that everything is text in bash
> means it is way harder than it needs to be to use rich, modern data
> structures.
I think anybody who writes anything of substance in bash would have to
agree. However when the task involves mainly manipulating files and
running other programs, the clumsy control structures are a small
enough price to pay for the ease with which bash deals with
manipulating files/paths/programs.
OTOH, you can use C shell or PHP and get the worst of both worlds...
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I'm wet! I'm wild!
at
gmail.com
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datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 10:33 -0700
Re: datetime issue Jason Friedman <jason@powerpull.net> - 2012-09-15 12:58 -0600
Re: datetime issue Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2012-09-15 12:05 -0700
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 12:26 -0700
Re: datetime issue MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-09-15 21:28 +0100
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 22:15 -0700
Re: datetime issue Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-16 01:53 -0400
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 00:51 -0700
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:18 -0700
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:18 -0700
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 00:51 -0700
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:25 -0700
Re: datetime issue Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 09:53 +0000
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 03:15 -0700
Re: datetime issue Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 10:49 +0000
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 03:54 -0700
Re: datetime issue Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 11:34 +0000
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 04:56 -0700
Re: datetime issue Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-09-16 15:31 -0400
Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-09-16 23:18 +1000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:41 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 11:57 -0400
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:06 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 12:23 -0400
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 16:54 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-16 20:26 +0100
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2012-09-16 12:32 -0400
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:06 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-16 12:30 -0400
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 16:52 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2012-09-17 01:09 +0530
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-09-17 14:28 +0100
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:44 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 01:57 +1000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:02 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:02 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2012-09-16 12:28 -0400
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 00:18 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 17:47 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-16 20:55 -0400
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 18:14 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 00:39 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-01 09:55 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-01 15:08 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 10:32 +1100
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-02 01:25 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-01 21:42 -0400
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.demon.co.uk> - 2012-11-02 02:07 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-02 14:11 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-02 09:36 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-02 11:39 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-11-03 00:06 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-04 11:13 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-11-04 22:10 -0800
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-05 17:39 +1100
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-11-04 23:34 -0800
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-05 07:56 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-06 01:20 +1100
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-05 14:59 +0000
RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-11-06 16:52 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 05:03 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-06 08:52 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups GangGreene <GangGreene@example.com> - 2012-11-06 11:51 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 23:14 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups GangGreene <GangGreene@example.com> - 2012-11-06 19:16 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-07 15:13 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2012-11-07 18:52 +1300
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-07 01:04 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-07 08:15 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-11-05 11:28 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-05 18:20 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-11-05 14:47 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 04:46 +0000
RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-11-06 17:16 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 22:50 +0000
RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-11-06 23:08 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-07 00:13 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Hans Mulder <hansmu@xs4all.nl> - 2012-11-09 12:34 +0100
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-10 06:57 +0000
RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran+python@gmail.com> - 2012-11-07 15:08 +0530
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Hans Mulder <hansmu@xs4all.nl> - 2012-11-09 10:49 +0100
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-09 11:30 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-05 11:41 -0800
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Virgil Stokes <vs@it.uu.se> - 2012-11-04 17:52 +0100
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2012-11-03 07:44 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-11-03 10:24 -0400
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-03 16:18 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-04 03:05 +1100
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 11:42 -0600
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-11-04 18:39 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2012-11-09 12:02 +0100
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-09-21 00:22 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-21 15:07 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2012-09-21 22:11 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Hank Gay <hank.gay+eternal.september@gmail.com> - 2012-09-21 20:51 -0400
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-22 00:13 -0400
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-23 22:25 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 00:07 -0500
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-31 12:32 -0700
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-31 22:33 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-31 23:58 +0000
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-01 09:44 +0000
Re: datetime issue Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-16 09:22 -0400
Re: datetime issue Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 23:32 +1000
Re: datetime issue Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 00:10 +1000
gc.get_objects() Matteo Boscolo <matteo.boscolo@boscolini.eu> - 2012-09-17 14:42 +0200
Re: gc.get_objects() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-17 14:16 +0000
Re: gc.get_objects() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-18 02:09 +1000
Re: gc.get_objects() Matteo Boscolo <matteo.boscolo@boscolini.eu> - 2012-09-17 19:23 +0200
Re: gc.get_objects() Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 17:43 +0000
Re: datetime issue Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-31 15:11 +0000
Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-31 12:35 -0700
Re: datetime issue Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-31 21:38 +0000
Re: datetime issue Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 19:23 -0500
Re: datetime issue Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-11-01 00:36 +0000
Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-01 15:00 -0700
Re: datetime issue Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-02 09:57 +0000
Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-02 11:43 -0700
Re: datetime issue Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 19:09 -0500
Re: datetime issue Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-01 12:09 +0000
Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-01 15:28 -0700
Re: datetime issue "Günther Dietrich" <gd.usenet@spamfence.net> - 2012-09-16 15:22 +0200
Re: datetime issue pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:43 -0700
Re: datetime issue Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-16 15:35 -0400
Re: datetime issue MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-09-16 16:27 +0100
Re: datetime issue pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:40 -0700
Re: datetime issue Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 01:54 +1000
Re: datetime issue Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-16 20:23 +0100
Re: datetime issue pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:40 -0700
Re: datetime issue Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-16 15:37 -0400
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:25 -0700
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 22:15 -0700
Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 12:26 -0700
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