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Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate)

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From Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com>
To python-list@python.org
Subject Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate)
Date Tue, 13 May 2014 02:31:14 -0400
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On Tuesday 13 May 2014 01:48:43 Steven D'Aprano did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Tue, 13 May 2014 00:33:47 -0500, Mark H Harris wrote:
> > there has to be a value add for scientists to move away from R or
> > Matlab, or from FORTRAN. Why go to the trouble?  FORTRAN works well
> > (its fast too), and there are zillions of lines of code cranking
> > away on huge linear arrays.  Enter Julia... over the next ten years;
> > seriously. Because of the value adds!
> > 
> >     Why?, glad you asked.  Enter self modifying code for one.
> 
> Self-modifying code is a nightmare inside the head of a Lovecraftian
> horror. There's a reason why almost the only people still using self-
> modifying code are virus writers, and the viruses they create are
> notorious for being buggy.

People who write buggy self-modifying code aren't paying attention. And 
you don't want those people anywhere near your code in 107% of the cases.

Stable, dead reliable self modifying code CAN be written, I have done it.  
And that code was still in use at the tv station that I wrote it for 15 
years later.  The only time it crashed was when there was a power failure, 
and the backup generator, which had to be started by hand, didn't get 
started soon enough to keep the battery backup, an old fried & dried 6 
volt gel-cell from running down.  An RCA 1802 device without an assembler 
even, just a hex monitor for code entry, and memory in those days (1980) 
was $400 for 4k of static ram when I built it.  By using self modifying 
code, I was able to do about 10k worth of code, using about 2.5k of that 
4k of ram.  Its all in how you reset each location that is modified on 
your way back to the top of the program to await the next command.

IMO, people who bad-mouth self-modifying code are folks who don't have the 
patience to do it right, because stable self-modifying code CAN most 
certainly be done.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

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Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-06 21:19 -0400
  Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-07 09:18 +0300
    Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-07 09:51 +0100
    Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-07 06:00 -0700
      Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-07 17:17 +0300
        Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 00:30 +1000
    Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 00:14 +1000
      Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-07 17:20 +0300
    Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Jerry Hill <malaclypse2@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 11:48 -0400
      Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 14:31 -0500
        Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 05:57 +1000
          Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 00:15 +0300
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 16:35 -0500
              Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 01:27 +0000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 12:09 +1000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 03:41 +0000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2014-05-08 03:43 +0000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 17:34 -0500
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 01:11 +0000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-10 00:46 -0700
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 10:35 +1000
              Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 01:32 +0000
              Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 09:19 +0300
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 16:40 +1000
                Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 23:50 -0700
                Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 10:03 +0300
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-07 21:33 -0400
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Johannes Schneider <johannes.schneider@galileo-press.de> - 2014-05-08 09:26 +0200
              Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-09 00:54 +0000
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Joseph Martinot-Lagarde <joseph.martinot-lagarde@m4x.org> - 2014-05-08 10:07 +0200
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 18:14 +1000
              Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 13:22 +0000
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 18:34 +1000
              Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 12:43 +0300
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 21:14 +1000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 15:01 +0300
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-09 05:14 +1000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 14:50 -0700
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-09 00:02 +0000
                Re: The �  debate Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-05-09 13:10 +1200
                Re: The �  debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-09 13:13 +1000
                Re: The �  debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 01:34 +0000
                Re: The �  debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 21:34 -0500
                Re: The �  debate Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-05-10 17:58 +1200
                Re: The � debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 17:10 +1000
                Re: The � debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 07:48 +0000
                Re: The � debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 18:01 +1000
                Re: The � debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-10 11:21 +0300
                Re: The � debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 02:05 -0700
                Re: The � debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-10 12:30 -0700
                Re: The � debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-10 11:18 +0300
                Re: The � debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 09:31 +0000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 13:18 +0000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 23:46 +1000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 14:22 +0000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 00:51 +1000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 16:04 +0000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 02:10 +1000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-08 21:02 -0400
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-09 01:32 +0000
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-08 22:21 -0400
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 12:31 +1000
                Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 22:40 -0700
                Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 15:51 +1000
                Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 07:09 -0700
                Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 00:29 +1000
                Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 09:07 -0700
                Re: The “does Python have variables?â€瑩 debate Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-09 19:51 -0400
                Re: The “does Python have variables?â€瑩 debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-10 01:03 +0100
                Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-10 09:42 -0400
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-10 14:31 -0400
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 01:17 -0500
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 00:01 -0700
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 07:09 +0000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Tomasz Rola <rtomek@ceti.pl> - 2014-05-11 18:09 +0200
                Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-11 19:27 +0300
                Re: Fortran Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-11 13:51 -0400
                Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:08 +1000
                Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 23:51 +0000
                Re: Fortran Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 01:27 +0100
                Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-12 02:28 +0000
                Re: Fortran Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 10:05 +0100
                Re: Fortran Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-12 20:52 -0400
                Re: Fortran Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-11 11:05 -0700
                Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:33 +1000
                Re: Fortran Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-11 14:43 -0400
                Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 23:15 +0000
                Re: Fortran MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-12 00:51 +0100
                Re: Fortran Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-11 20:14 -0400
                Re: Fortran alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-05-12 14:14 +0000
                Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-12 01:11 +0000
                Re: Fortran Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2014-05-11 23:27 -0400
                Re: Fortran Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-12 14:07 +0000
                Re: Fortran Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-11 21:12 -0400
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 02:42 +1000
                Re: Fortran Tomasz Rola <rtomek@ceti.pl> - 2014-05-11 20:04 +0200
                Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:12 +1000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-11 19:05 +0200
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 13:54 -0500
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:59 +1000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 14:14 -0500
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-29 14:06 +0000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-05-29 17:53 +0000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-05-11 23:10 -0400
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 23:10 -0500
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 23:26 -0500
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 14:53 +1000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-12 10:44 +0200
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 00:33 -0500
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 05:48 +0000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 00:55 -0500
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 15:56 +1000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 09:34 +0000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 20:00 +1000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 03:44 -0700
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 20:50 +1000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-05-13 02:31 -0400
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 07:22 +0000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-13 07:16 -0400
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 21:21 +1000
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-13 14:42 +0100
                Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-05-13 07:42 -0400
                Re: Fortran Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-13 19:33 +0200
                Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-13 22:57 +0300
                Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-14 00:10 +0000
                Re: Fortran Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 21:43 -0600
                Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-14 07:35 +0300
                Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-14 06:58 +0000
                Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-14 11:46 +0300
                Re: Fortran Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-05-14 23:05 +0000
                struct.unpack: why 's' fmt char convert to bytestring GuoChao <cx63@outlook.com> - 2014-05-15 20:34 +0800
                Re: struct.unpack: why 's' fmt char convert to bytestring Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-05-15 09:49 -0400
                Re: struct.unpack: why 's' fmt char convert to bytestring MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-15 15:47 +0100
                Re: Fortran Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-14 15:13 +0200
                Re: Fortran albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-29 14:26 +0000
                Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-29 17:50 +0300
                Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 00:58 +1000
                Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-29 18:09 +0300
                Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-29 17:57 +0000
                Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-29 21:55 +0300
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-09 09:13 +0100
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 08:06 -0600
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 00:13 +1000
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-08 15:21 -0400
              Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 23:06 +0300
                Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 15:36 -0700
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 17:05 -0700
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-09 01:47 +0100
      Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 00:57 +0000
      Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-08 08:41 -0400
        Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 22:54 +1000
        Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 06:18 -0700
          Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 17:03 +0300
            Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 16:09 -0700
        Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate "Neil D. Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2014-05-08 10:47 -0400

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