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| Date | Thu, 08 May 2014 15:36:55 -0700 |
| From | Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> |
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| Subject | Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate |
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On 05/08/2014 01:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>:
>
>>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Joseph Martinot-Lagarde
>>> <joseph.martinot-lagarde@m4x.org> wrote:
>>>> For me, names bound to values is the same concept as pointer
>>>> pointing to memory.
>>
>> You are missing a level of indirection. In CPython, a name (always in
>> some namespace) represents a pointer to a pointer. The first pointer
>> is calculated as an offset from the base pointer of the namespace. For
>> a C array namespace (used for functions), the offset is constant (for
>> that function and namespace). For a python dict namespace, the offset
>> is calculated from the hash of the name, the size of the dict, and the
>> previous contents of the hash table. This complication allows the
>> namespace to grow and shrink. In either case, the second pointer if
>> overwritten to 'rebind' the name.
>
> Terry, you are talking about an implementation. Joseph is talking about
> the concept.
>
> You can tell a C programmer that a Python variable always holds a
> pointer to an object, and they get the idea right away ("Oh, so '.' in
> Python is the same as '->' in C") and start producing efficient, correct
> Python code.
Right up until they want to dereference.
--
~Ethan~
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Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-06 21:19 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-07 09:18 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-07 09:51 +0100
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-07 06:00 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-07 17:17 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 00:30 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 00:14 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-07 17:20 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Jerry Hill <malaclypse2@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 11:48 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 14:31 -0500
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 05:57 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 00:15 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 16:35 -0500
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 01:27 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 12:09 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 03:41 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2014-05-08 03:43 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 17:34 -0500
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 01:11 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-10 00:46 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 10:35 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 01:32 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 09:19 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 16:40 +1000
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 23:50 -0700
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 10:03 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-07 21:33 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Johannes Schneider <johannes.schneider@galileo-press.de> - 2014-05-08 09:26 +0200
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-09 00:54 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Joseph Martinot-Lagarde <joseph.martinot-lagarde@m4x.org> - 2014-05-08 10:07 +0200
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 18:14 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 13:22 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 18:34 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 12:43 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 21:14 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 15:01 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-09 05:14 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 14:50 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-09 00:02 +0000
Re: The � debate Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-05-09 13:10 +1200
Re: The � debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-09 13:13 +1000
Re: The � debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 01:34 +0000
Re: The � debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 21:34 -0500
Re: The � debate Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-05-10 17:58 +1200
Re: The � debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 17:10 +1000
Re: The � debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 07:48 +0000
Re: The � debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 18:01 +1000
Re: The � debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-10 11:21 +0300
Re: The � debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 02:05 -0700
Re: The � debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-10 12:30 -0700
Re: The � debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-10 11:18 +0300
Re: The � debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 09:31 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 13:18 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 23:46 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 14:22 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 00:51 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 16:04 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 02:10 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-08 21:02 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-09 01:32 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-08 22:21 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 12:31 +1000
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 22:40 -0700
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 15:51 +1000
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 07:09 -0700
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 00:29 +1000
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 09:07 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?â€瑩 debate Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-09 19:51 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?â€瑩 debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-10 01:03 +0100
Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-10 09:42 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-10 14:31 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 01:17 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 00:01 -0700
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 07:09 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Tomasz Rola <rtomek@ceti.pl> - 2014-05-11 18:09 +0200
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-11 19:27 +0300
Re: Fortran Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-11 13:51 -0400
Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:08 +1000
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 23:51 +0000
Re: Fortran Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 01:27 +0100
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-12 02:28 +0000
Re: Fortran Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 10:05 +0100
Re: Fortran Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-12 20:52 -0400
Re: Fortran Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-11 11:05 -0700
Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:33 +1000
Re: Fortran Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-11 14:43 -0400
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 23:15 +0000
Re: Fortran MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-12 00:51 +0100
Re: Fortran Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-11 20:14 -0400
Re: Fortran alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-05-12 14:14 +0000
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-12 01:11 +0000
Re: Fortran Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2014-05-11 23:27 -0400
Re: Fortran Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-12 14:07 +0000
Re: Fortran Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-11 21:12 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 02:42 +1000
Re: Fortran Tomasz Rola <rtomek@ceti.pl> - 2014-05-11 20:04 +0200
Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:12 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-11 19:05 +0200
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 13:54 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:59 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 14:14 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-29 14:06 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-05-29 17:53 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-05-11 23:10 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 23:10 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 23:26 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 14:53 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-12 10:44 +0200
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 00:33 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 05:48 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 00:55 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 15:56 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 09:34 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 20:00 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 03:44 -0700
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 20:50 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-05-13 02:31 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 07:22 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-13 07:16 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 21:21 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-13 14:42 +0100
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-05-13 07:42 -0400
Re: Fortran Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-13 19:33 +0200
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-13 22:57 +0300
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-14 00:10 +0000
Re: Fortran Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 21:43 -0600
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-14 07:35 +0300
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-14 06:58 +0000
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-14 11:46 +0300
Re: Fortran Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-05-14 23:05 +0000
struct.unpack: why 's' fmt char convert to bytestring GuoChao <cx63@outlook.com> - 2014-05-15 20:34 +0800
Re: struct.unpack: why 's' fmt char convert to bytestring Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-05-15 09:49 -0400
Re: struct.unpack: why 's' fmt char convert to bytestring MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-15 15:47 +0100
Re: Fortran Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-14 15:13 +0200
Re: Fortran albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-29 14:26 +0000
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-29 17:50 +0300
Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 00:58 +1000
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-29 18:09 +0300
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-29 17:57 +0000
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-29 21:55 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-09 09:13 +0100
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 08:06 -0600
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 00:13 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-08 15:21 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 23:06 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 15:36 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 17:05 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-09 01:47 +0100
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 00:57 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-08 08:41 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 22:54 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 06:18 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 17:03 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 16:09 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate "Neil D. Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2014-05-08 10:47 -0400
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