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| Date | Thu, 08 May 2014 06:18:15 -0700 |
| From | Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> |
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| Subject | Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate |
| References | <235C4BFA-9770-481A-9FCF-21C3F036769C@gmail.com> <5368681D.8070602@islandtraining.com> <lkbgr7$e6o$1@ger.gmane.org> <85zjiuea37.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <mailman.9722.1399425590.18130.python-list@python.org> <8738gmxgay.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <mailman.9742.1399477705.18130.python-list@python.org> <roy-682174.08413008052014@news.panix.com> |
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On 05/08/2014 05:41 AM, Roy Smith wrote: > In article <mailman.9742.1399477705.18130.python-list@python.org>, > Jerry Hill <malaclypse2@gmail.com> wrote: > >> thinking of python variables as having two parts -- names and values >> -- really can help people who are struggling to learn the language. > > There's many levels of learning, and we see them all on this list. > > For people who are just learning programming, and are learning Python as > their first language, we need to keep things simple. These are the > people who are still struggling to understand basic concepts such as > algorithms, loops, and the most fundamental data structures. For those > people, talking about variables as a container to hold a value is the > right level of abstraction. -1 There is nothing wrong with simplifying concepts for newbies, but use one that fits the language. There is nothing difficult with either the sticky note analogy or the pieces of paper and a string analogy. Teaching someone that Python variables are containers is a massive fail. > OK, so that takes care of newbies. There's another whole class of > people who learn Python. These are the people who have been doing this > for a long time. There's also the whole class of programmers who only know one language, or only a small handful of related languages that all pretty much operate the same as far as variables are concerned. The simple analogies is also helpful for them. -- ~Ethan~
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Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-06 21:19 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-07 09:18 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-07 09:51 +0100
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-07 06:00 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-07 17:17 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 00:30 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 00:14 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-07 17:20 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Jerry Hill <malaclypse2@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 11:48 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 14:31 -0500
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 05:57 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 00:15 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 16:35 -0500
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 01:27 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 12:09 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 03:41 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2014-05-08 03:43 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 17:34 -0500
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 01:11 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-10 00:46 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 10:35 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 01:32 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 09:19 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 16:40 +1000
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 23:50 -0700
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 10:03 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-07 21:33 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Johannes Schneider <johannes.schneider@galileo-press.de> - 2014-05-08 09:26 +0200
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-09 00:54 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Joseph Martinot-Lagarde <joseph.martinot-lagarde@m4x.org> - 2014-05-08 10:07 +0200
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 18:14 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 13:22 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 18:34 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 12:43 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-08 21:14 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 15:01 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-09 05:14 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 14:50 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-09 00:02 +0000
Re: The � debate Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-05-09 13:10 +1200
Re: The � debate Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-09 13:13 +1000
Re: The � debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 01:34 +0000
Re: The � debate Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 21:34 -0500
Re: The � debate Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-05-10 17:58 +1200
Re: The � debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 17:10 +1000
Re: The � debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 07:48 +0000
Re: The � debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 18:01 +1000
Re: The � debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-10 11:21 +0300
Re: The � debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 02:05 -0700
Re: The � debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-10 12:30 -0700
Re: The � debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-10 11:18 +0300
Re: The � debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 09:31 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 13:18 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 23:46 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 14:22 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 00:51 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 16:04 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 02:10 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-08 21:02 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-09 01:32 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-08 22:21 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 12:31 +1000
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 22:40 -0700
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 15:51 +1000
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 07:09 -0700
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 00:29 +1000
Re: The "does Python have variables?" debate Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 09:07 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?â€瑩 debate Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-09 19:51 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?â€瑩 debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-10 01:03 +0100
Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-10 09:42 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-10 14:31 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 01:17 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 00:01 -0700
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 07:09 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Tomasz Rola <rtomek@ceti.pl> - 2014-05-11 18:09 +0200
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-11 19:27 +0300
Re: Fortran Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-11 13:51 -0400
Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:08 +1000
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 23:51 +0000
Re: Fortran Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 01:27 +0100
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-12 02:28 +0000
Re: Fortran Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 10:05 +0100
Re: Fortran Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-12 20:52 -0400
Re: Fortran Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-11 11:05 -0700
Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:33 +1000
Re: Fortran Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-11 14:43 -0400
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 23:15 +0000
Re: Fortran MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-12 00:51 +0100
Re: Fortran Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-11 20:14 -0400
Re: Fortran alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-05-12 14:14 +0000
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-12 01:11 +0000
Re: Fortran Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2014-05-11 23:27 -0400
Re: Fortran Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-12 14:07 +0000
Re: Fortran Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-11 21:12 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 02:42 +1000
Re: Fortran Tomasz Rola <rtomek@ceti.pl> - 2014-05-11 20:04 +0200
Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:12 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-11 19:05 +0200
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 13:54 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 04:59 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 14:14 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-29 14:06 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-05-29 17:53 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-05-11 23:10 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 23:10 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 23:26 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 14:53 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-12 10:44 +0200
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 00:33 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 05:48 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 00:55 -0500
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 15:56 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 09:34 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 20:00 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 03:44 -0700
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 20:50 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-05-13 02:31 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-13 07:22 +0000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-13 07:16 -0400
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 21:21 +1000
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-13 14:42 +0100
Re: Fortran (Was: The "does Python have variables?" debate) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-05-13 07:42 -0400
Re: Fortran Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-13 19:33 +0200
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-13 22:57 +0300
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-14 00:10 +0000
Re: Fortran Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-05-13 21:43 -0600
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-14 07:35 +0300
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-14 06:58 +0000
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-14 11:46 +0300
Re: Fortran Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-05-14 23:05 +0000
struct.unpack: why 's' fmt char convert to bytestring GuoChao <cx63@outlook.com> - 2014-05-15 20:34 +0800
Re: struct.unpack: why 's' fmt char convert to bytestring Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-05-15 09:49 -0400
Re: struct.unpack: why 's' fmt char convert to bytestring MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-15 15:47 +0100
Re: Fortran Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-05-14 15:13 +0200
Re: Fortran albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-29 14:26 +0000
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-29 17:50 +0300
Re: Fortran Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 00:58 +1000
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-29 18:09 +0300
Re: Fortran Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-29 17:57 +0000
Re: Fortran Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-29 21:55 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-09 09:13 +0100
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 08:06 -0600
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 00:13 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-08 15:21 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 23:06 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 15:36 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 17:05 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-09 01:47 +0100
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 00:57 +0000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-08 08:41 -0400
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 22:54 +1000
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 06:18 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 17:03 +0300
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-08 16:09 -0700
Re: The “does Python have variables?” debate "Neil D. Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2014-05-08 10:47 -0400
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