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Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain

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On 18/03/2015 06:37, John Nagle wrote:
> On 3/15/2015 4:43 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
>> In article <am4cga9sn16m74v1952gnfq5u443mkk9l1@4ax.com>,
>>   Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What makes you think your anecdotal bugs constitute any sort of
>>> evidence this programming language isn't ready to be used by the
>>> public?
>>
>> There's several levels of "ready".
>>
>> I'm sure the core language is more than ready for production use for a
>> project starting from scratch which doesn't rely on any third party
>> libraries.
>>
>> The next step up on the "ready" ladder would be a new project which will
>> require third-party libraries.  And that pretty much means any
>> non-trivial project.  I'm reasonably confident that most common use
>> cases can now be covered by p3-ready third party modules.
>
>     If only that were true.  Look what I'm reporting bugs on:
>
> 	ssl - a core Python module.
> 	cPickle - a core Python module.
> 	pymysql - the pure-Python recommended way to talk to MySQL.
> 	bs4/html5parser - a popular parser for HTML5
>
> We're not in exotic territory here.  I've done lots of exotic
> projects, but this isn't one of them.
>
> There's progress.  The fix to "ssl" has been made and committed.
> I have a workaround for the cPickle bug - use pure-Python Pickle.
> I have a workaround for the pymysql problem, and a permanent fix
> is going into the next release of pymysql. I have a tiny test case
> for bs4/html5parser that reproduces the bug on a tiny snippet of
> HTML, and that's been uploaded to the BS4 issues tracker.
> I don't have a workaround for that.
>
> All this has cost me about two weeks of work so far.
>
> The "everything is just fine" comments are not helpful.
> Denial is not a river in Egypt.
>
> 				John Nagle
> 	
>

This is clearly where our thought processes differ. ssl is not a core 
Python module, it gets built into Python on Windows and OS X as an 
external module.  I assume you have to build it on the *nix variants or 
install via the appropriate package manager.  pymysql and 
bs4/html5parser are third party modules that core python has no control 
over.  You have a workaround to the cPickle issue.  So it's obvious to 
me that your complaints should be on the mailing lists for the third 
party modules that don't work for you, not here, and the cPickle issue 
should be on the bug tracker if it isn't already.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2015-03-13 14:08 -0700
  Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain INADA Naoki <songofacandy@gmail.com> - 2015-03-14 07:27 +0900
    Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2015-03-13 16:01 -0700
      Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2015-03-13 16:14 -0700
      Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-14 12:40 +1100
      Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain INADA Naoki <songofacandy@gmail.com> - 2015-03-15 16:01 +0900
        Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-15 01:11 -0700
  Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-14 10:00 +0200
    Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2015-03-15 12:05 -0700
      Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-15 19:16 +0000
      Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain "Fetchinson ." <fetchinson@googlemail.com> - 2015-03-15 21:59 +0100
      Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-15 21:05 +0000
        Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-16 11:25 +1100
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 11:38 +1100
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-16 01:07 +0000
      Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 00:23 +0100
        Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2015-03-15 19:43 -0400
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 11:00 +1100
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 01:19 +0100
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2015-03-17 23:37 -0700
            Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-18 08:41 +0000
            Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2015-03-18 02:11 -0700
              Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-18 21:53 +1100
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 06:42 -0700
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-18 07:23 -0700
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-18 09:35 -0700
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-20 09:48 +1100
        Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Kishan Thobhani <thobhanikishan@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 05:05 +0530
        Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Kishan Thobhani <thobhanikishan@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 05:23 +0530
  Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-14 09:05 +0000

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