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Re: Python education survey

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From Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Python education survey
Date Wed, 28 Dec 2011 04:50:28 +1100
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On 12/28/2011 03:37 AM, Rick Johnson wrote:
> My logic is this:
>   """ Including an IDE in the stdlib may have been a bad idea (although
> i understand and support Guido's original vision for IDLE). But since
> we do have it, we need to either MAINTAIN the package or REMOVE it. We
> cannot just stick our heads in the sand and ignore the elephant in the
> chicken coop. It's bad enough to bloat ANY stdlib with seldom used
> modules, but i dare say, it's far worse to bloat a library with seldom
> used modules that are poorly maintained! Every module in Python's
> stdlib is a testament to the skill and professionalism of this
> community as a whole. When a module looks or works badly, we ALL look
> and work badly."""

AFAICS, Python has a pretty good reputation even outside Python 
community. I haven't seen anyone looks at Python badly because of IDLE.

> It's no big secret to anyone in this community that both Tkinter and
> IDLE are the red headed step children of Pythons stdlib. Very few
> people speak kindly of either package. I believe GvR still believes in
> the merits of both packages (psst: batteries included!) but he finds
> himself at odds with the elite at pydev. Hmm, Maybe he DOES want to
> remove them but fears loosing face...FYI: Guido IS is the original
> author of both Tkinter and IDLE... it was HIS idea after all. However,
> it is high time to re-ignite the original vision and form these
> packages into something we can be proud of -- OR -- cut our losses and
> remove them forever.

I hope you're not attempting to put words into his mouth, what you think 
of Guido's ideas is not necessarily Guido's ideas.

In any case, IDLE is open source -- I don't know exactly what license 
it's under but I'd assume it's the same as Python -- and anyone in this 
list and outside this list -- including you -- can freely fork it and 
work on it to improve it. In case you haven't realised it, it is pretty 
much impossible for a large open source project to "die"; even if Guido 
decided to remove IDLE from the standard library, it's not unlikely that 
someone will fork it and maintain it as a third party application.

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Thread

Python education survey Raymond Hettinger <raymond.hettinger@gmail.com> - 2011-12-19 19:51 -0800
  Re: Python education survey Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 17:27 +1100
  Re: Python education survey Luka Dornhecker <luka.dornhecker@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-19 23:20 -0800
  Re: Python education survey Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 02:32 -0500
  Re: Python education survey Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2011-12-20 09:14 +0100
    Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 03:02 -0800
    Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 06:45 -0800
      Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-21 02:51 +1100
  Re: Python education survey Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 10:58 +0000
    Re: Python education survey Carl Smith <carl.input@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 21:59 -0800
      Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 03:41 -0800
        Re: Python education survey Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 04:53 +1100
          Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 11:45 -0800
            Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 12:04 -0800
              Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 13:44 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 17:56 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-12-27 20:21 -0600
                Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 18:42 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 14:54 +1100
                Re: Python education survey Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-28 06:59 +0000
                Re: Python education survey rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 23:49 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-12-31 16:27 +0000
                Re: Python education survey Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-12-31 13:23 -0500
                Re: Python education survey Alexander Kapps <alex.kapps@web.de> - 2011-12-31 20:06 +0100
                Re: Python education survey Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-01-01 02:36 +0000
                Re: Python education survey Alexander Kapps <alex.kapps@web.de> - 2012-01-01 05:53 +0100
                Re: Python education survey Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-01-02 17:02 +0000
                Re: Python education survey Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-12-31 23:44 -0600
                Re: Python education survey Dominic Binks <dbinks@codeaurora.org> - 2011-12-31 21:12 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-01-02 21:27 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Dominic Binks <dbinks@codeaurora.org> - 2012-01-02 22:03 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Evan Driscoll <edriscoll@wisc.edu> - 2012-01-03 01:31 -0500
                Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2012-01-03 04:33 -0800
                Re: Python education survey Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-01-04 01:30 +0000
                Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-01-01 16:50 +1100
                Re: Python education survey Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 04:25 -0800
  Re: Python education survey Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka@gmail.com> - 2011-12-20 10:07 -0800
  Re: Python education survey Fernando Perez <fperez.net@gmail.com> - 2011-12-21 01:40 +0000
  Re: Python education survey Ashton Fagg <ashton@fagg.id.au> - 2011-12-21 12:06 +1000
    Re: Python education survey Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-12-20 21:34 -0500
      Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-21 13:44 +1100
      Re: Python education survey Nathan Rice <nathan.alexander.rice@gmail.com> - 2011-12-21 11:57 -0500
        Re: Python education survey Raymond Hettinger <raymond.hettinger@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 12:01 -0800
        Re: Python education survey rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 19:05 -0800
  Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-25 09:44 -0800
    Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 14:27 +1100
      Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 06:52 -0800
        Re: Python education survey Nathan Rice <nathan.alexander.rice@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 11:11 -0500
          Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 09:27 -0800
        Re: Python education survey Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-26 18:04 +0000
          Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 10:32 -0800
            Re: Python education survey Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 06:56 +1100
    Re: Python education survey Carl Smith <carl.input@gmail.com> - 2011-12-26 22:14 -0800
      Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 08:37 -0800
        Re: Python education survey Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 04:50 +1100
          Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 10:11 -0800
            Re: Python education survey Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 08:13 +1100
            Re: Python education survey Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 14:31 -0700
  Re: Python education survey Monte Milanuk <memilanuk@gmail.com> - 2011-12-25 22:02 -0800
  Re: Python education survey K Richard Pixley <rich@noir.com> - 2011-12-27 09:59 -0800
    Re: Python education survey Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 12:26 -0600
      Re: Python education survey K Richard Pixley <rich@noir.com> - 2011-12-27 14:04 -0800
        Re: Python education survey Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 16:57 -0600
          Re: Python education survey 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-27 17:21 -0800
            Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 18:01 -0800
          Re: Python education survey 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-27 17:21 -0800
      Re: Python education survey rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 21:50 -0800
    Re: Python education survey Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2011-12-27 10:21 -0800
      Re: Python education survey K Richard Pixley <rich@noir.com> - 2011-12-27 12:39 -0800

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