Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #17830

Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do]

Show key headers only | View raw

> To fake early binding when the language provides late binding, you still
> use a sentinel value, but the initialization code creating the default
> value is outside the body of the function, usually in a global variable:
>
>    _DEFAULT_Y = []  # Private constant, don't touch.
>
>    def func(x, y=None):
>        if y is None:
>            y = _DEFAULT_Y
>        ...
>
> This separates parts of the code that should be together, and relies on a
> global, with all the disadvantages that implies.

No, you can just do def func(x, y=_DEFAULT_Y): ...

-- Devin

On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 13:13:38 +0000, Neil Cerutti wrote:
>
>> On 2011-12-23, Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> wrote:
>>> Is the misfeature that Python doesn't evaluate the default argument
>>> expression every time you call the function? What would be the harm if
>>> it did?
>>
>> ...you know, assuming it wouldn't break existing code. ;)
>
> It will. Python's default argument strategy has been in use for 20 years.
> Some code will rely on it. I know mine does.
>
> There are two strategies for dealing with default arguments that I know
> of: early binding and late binding. Python has early binding: the default
> argument is evaluated once, when the function is created. Late binding
> means the default argument is always re-evaluated each time it is needed.
>
> Both strategies are reasonable choices. Both have advantages and
> disadvantages. Both have use-cases, and both lead to confusion when the
> user expects one but gets the other. If you think changing from early to
> late binding will completely eliminate the default argument "gotcha", you
> haven't thought things through -- at best you might reduce the number of
> complaints, but only at the cost of shifting them from one set of use-
> cases to another.
>
> Early binding is simple to implement and simple to explain: when you
> define a function, the default value is evaluated once, and the result
> stored to be used whenever it is needed. The disadvantage is that it can
> lead to unexpected results for mutable arguments.
>
> Late binding is also simple to explain, but a little harder to implement.
> The function needs to store the default value as a piece of code (an
> expression) which can be re-evaluated as often as needed, not an object.
>
> The disadvantage of late binding is that since the expression is live, it
> needs to be calculated each time, even if it turns out to be the same
> result. But there's no guarantee that it will return the same result each
> time: consider a default value like x=time.time(), which will return a
> different value each time it is called; or one like x=a+b, which will
> vary if either a or b are changed. Or will fail altogether if either a or
> b are deleted. This will surprise some people some of the time and lead
> to demands that Python "fix" the "obviously buggy" default argument
> gotcha.
>
> If a language only offers one, I maintain it should offer early binding
> (the status quo). Why? Because it is more elegant to fake late binding in
> an early binding language than vice versa.
>
> To fake late binding in a language with early binding, use a sentinel
> value and put the default value inside the body of the function:
>
>    def func(x, y=None):
>        if y is None:
>            y = []
>        ...
>
> All the important parts of the function are in one place, namely inside
> the function.
>
> To fake early binding when the language provides late binding, you still
> use a sentinel value, but the initialization code creating the default
> value is outside the body of the function, usually in a global variable:
>
>    _DEFAULT_Y = []  # Private constant, don't touch.
>
>    def func(x, y=None):
>        if y is None:
>            y = _DEFAULT_Y
>        ...
>
> This separates parts of the code that should be together, and relies on a
> global, with all the disadvantages that implies.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Eric <einazaki668@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-21 14:25 -0800
  Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-12-21 18:20 -0500
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-21 23:48 +0000
      Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-12-24 19:41 +0100
        Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-25 13:16 +0000
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-12-24 19:45 +0100
  Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-21 23:44 +0000
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Eric <einazaki668@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-22 20:27 -0800
  Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-21 16:50 -0800
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Rolf Camps <rolf@roce.be> - 2011-12-22 09:51 +0100
      Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 18:10 -0800
        Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 19:59 -0700
          Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 19:40 -0800
            Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 15:25 +1100
            Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 22:22 -0700
              Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 22:00 -0800
        Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 00:38 -0800
          Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-23 09:39 +0000
            Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 02:22 -0800
              Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 13:10 +0000
                Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 05:23 -0800
                Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 13:53 +0000
                Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 06:57 -0800
                Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-23 15:33 +0000
                Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 07:59 -0800
          Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-12-23 00:49 -0800
          Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 20:59 +1100
            Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 02:31 -0800
              Timeout when calling COM objects on Windows Wong Wah Meng-R32813 <r32813@freescale.com> - 2011-12-23 11:20 +0000
              Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 10:23 -0700
            Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-12-23 13:10 +0000
              Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-12-23 13:13 +0000
                Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-23 15:49 +0000
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 02:55 +1100
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-23 22:32 +0000
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 09:50 +1100
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-24 08:11 +0000
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-12-23 11:15 -0500
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 05:43 -0800
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2011-12-23 11:27 -0500
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 05:52 -0800
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-12-23 17:03 +0000
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-24 08:25 +0000
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 06:08 -0800
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 18:25 -0500
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 16:10 -0800
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 19:32 -0500
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 19:22 -0800
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-25 15:12 +1100
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 19:24 -0500
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-24 08:26 +0000
        Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-12-23 00:38 -0800
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-12-22 05:20 -0800
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Eric <einazaki668@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-22 19:46 -0800
  Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 21:30 +1100
  Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-12-24 19:49 +0100

csiph-web