Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do]

References	(10 earlier) <9ljqifFfj9U3@mid.individual.net> <4ef58c60$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <ca6d1ce1-da00-4bef-b43f-f6374d77280c@24g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <mailman.4055.1324769169.27778.python-list@python.org> <f6c4dcdb-4092-4c44-8a82-234213fde6da@a31g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
From	Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com>
Date	2011-12-24 19:32 -0500
Subject	Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do]
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.4056.1324773177.27778.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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> Because I believe that the source of confusion has far more to do with
> mutable/immutable objects than with early/late binding. Masking or
> 'correcting' an aspect of Python's behaviour because novices make the
> wrong assumption about it just pushes the problem elsewhere and
> potentially makes the language inconsistent at the same time.

That seems fairly silly -- foo.append(bar) obviously mutates
_something_ . Certainly it wasn't the source of my confusion when I
got caught on this. What makes you believe that the fundamental
confusion is about mutability?

(Also, if the change is applied everywhere, the language would not be
inconsistent.)

-- Devin

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 7:10 PM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 25, 9:25 am, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If Python was ever 'fixed' to prevent this issue, I'm pretty sure we'd
>> > see an increase in the number of questions like the OP's.
>>
>> What makes you so sure? Both models do make sense and are equally
>> valid, it's just that only one of them is true. Is it just because
>> people already used to Python would get confused?
>
> Because I believe that the source of confusion has far more to do with
> mutable/immutable objects than with early/late binding. Masking or
> 'correcting' an aspect of Python's behaviour because novices make the
> wrong assumption about it just pushes the problem elsewhere and
> potentially makes the language inconsistent at the same time.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Thread

what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Eric <einazaki668@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-21 14:25 -0800
  Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-12-21 18:20 -0500
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-21 23:48 +0000
      Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-12-24 19:41 +0100
        Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-25 13:16 +0000
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-12-24 19:45 +0100
  Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-21 23:44 +0000
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Eric <einazaki668@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-22 20:27 -0800
  Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-21 16:50 -0800
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Rolf Camps <rolf@roce.be> - 2011-12-22 09:51 +0100
      Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 18:10 -0800
        Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 19:59 -0700
          Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 19:40 -0800
            Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 15:25 +1100
            Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 22:22 -0700
              Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 22:00 -0800
        Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 00:38 -0800
          Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-23 09:39 +0000
            Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 02:22 -0800
              Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 13:10 +0000
                Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 05:23 -0800
                Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 13:53 +0000
                Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 06:57 -0800
                Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-23 15:33 +0000
                Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 07:59 -0800
          Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-12-23 00:49 -0800
          Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 20:59 +1100
            Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 02:31 -0800
              Timeout when calling COM objects on Windows Wong Wah Meng-R32813 <r32813@freescale.com> - 2011-12-23 11:20 +0000
              Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 10:23 -0700
            Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-12-23 13:10 +0000
              Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-12-23 13:13 +0000
                Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-23 15:49 +0000
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 02:55 +1100
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-23 22:32 +0000
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 09:50 +1100
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-24 08:11 +0000
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-12-23 11:15 -0500
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 05:43 -0800
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2011-12-23 11:27 -0500
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 05:52 -0800
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-12-23 17:03 +0000
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-24 08:25 +0000
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 06:08 -0800
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 18:25 -0500
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 16:10 -0800
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 19:32 -0500
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 19:22 -0800
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-25 15:12 +1100
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 19:24 -0500
                Re: Early and late binding [was Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-24 08:26 +0000
        Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-12-23 00:38 -0800
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-12-22 05:20 -0800
    Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Eric <einazaki668@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-22 19:46 -0800
  Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 21:30 +1100
  Re: what does 'a=b=c=[]' do Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-12-24 19:49 +0100

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