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Groups > comp.lang.python > #27736
| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Subject | Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... |
| Date | 2012-08-23 15:18 +0100 |
| References | <a81cd504-d889-4aa1-9daa-6df3448b4da8@googlegroups.com> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3715.1345731438.4697.python-list@python.org> (permalink) |
On 23/08/2012 13:47, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
> This is neither a complaint nor a question, just a comment.
>
> In the previous discussion related to the flexible
> string representation, Roy Smith added this comment:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/2645504f459bab50/eda342573381ff42
>
> Not only I agree with his sentence:
> "Clearly, the world has moved to a 32-bit character set."
>
> he used in his comment a very intersting word: "punctuation".
>
> There is a point which is, in my mind, not very well understood,
> "digested", underestimated or neglected by many developers:
> the relation between the coding of the characters and the typography.
>
> Unicode (the consortium), does not only deal with the coding of
> the characters, it also worked on the characters *classification*.
>
> A deliberatly simplistic representation: "letters" in the bottom
> of the table, lower code points/integers; "typographic characters"
> like punctuation, common symbols, ... high in the table, high code
> points/integers.
>
> The conclusion is inescapable, if one wish to work in a "unicode
> mode", one is forced to use the whole palette of the unicode
> code points, this is the *nature* of Unicode.
>
> Technically, believing that it possible to optimize only a subrange
> of the unicode code points range is simply an illusion. A lot of
> work, probably quite complicate, which finally solves nothing.
>
> Python, in my mind, fell in this trap.
>
> "Simple is better than complex."
> -> hard to maintained
> "Flat is better than nested."
> -> code points range
> "Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules."
> -> special unicode code points?
> "Although practicality beats purity."
> -> or the opposite?
> "In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess."
> -> guessing a user will only work with the "optimmized" char subrange.
> ...
>
> Small illustration. Take an a4 page containing 50 lines of 80 ascii
> characters, add a single 'EM DASH' or an 'BULLET' (code points > 0x2000),
> and you will see all the optimization efforts destroyed.
>
>>> sys.getsizeof('a' * 80 * 50)
> 4025
>>>> sys.getsizeof('a' * 80 * 50 + '•')
> 8040
>
> Just my 2 € (code point 0x20ac) cents.
>
> jmf
>
I'm looking forward to all the patches you are going to provide to
correct all these (presumably) cPython deficiencies. When do they start
arriving on the bug tracker?
--
Cheers.
Mark Lawrence.
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Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-23 05:47 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Neil Hodgson <nhodgson@iinet.net.au> - 2012-08-23 23:57 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-08-23 16:11 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-23 09:19 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-23 11:33 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-23 13:22 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-24 09:06 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-24 17:47 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-24 14:34 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-23 20:34 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-23 15:18 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ramchandra Apte <maniandram01@gmail.com> - 2012-08-24 07:38 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2012-08-25 00:24 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 00:27 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-08-25 17:54 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 00:27 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-25 09:58 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Frank Millman <frank@chagford.com> - 2012-08-25 11:46 +0200
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 08:47 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 08:47 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-25 16:26 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 23:59 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-26 09:50 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 23:59 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-26 11:49 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-26 09:40 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-26 20:13 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2012-08-26 13:45 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-27 12:16 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-27 14:14 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-27 13:37 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-29 04:38 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-29 04:38 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Neil Hodgson <nhodgson@iinet.net.au> - 2012-08-28 09:54 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-29 13:59 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-28 22:15 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-29 08:05 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-29 04:40 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-08-29 08:01 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-29 08:43 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-30 06:55 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-30 18:59 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-30 07:02 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-30 16:00 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-08-30 16:44 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-31 12:32 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-31 09:13 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-31 08:43 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-31 14:54 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2012-08-30 15:01 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 00:36 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-02 09:58 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 03:06 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 11:58 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 13:45 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-09-02 16:07 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-02 16:38 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-03 01:42 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-03 18:26 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-04 00:53 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 11:58 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2012-09-02 11:52 +0200
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-02 11:36 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 15:00 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 22:39 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-03 07:11 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2012-09-03 08:15 +0200
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-03 04:38 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-03 18:56 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 22:39 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-02 13:23 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-02 08:35 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ramchandra Apte <maniandram01@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 06:48 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-02 15:46 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ramchandra Apte <maniandram01@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 06:48 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-09-03 12:33 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 00:36 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-30 10:27 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 23:38 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-03 01:54 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-02 22:33 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-03 11:24 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-03 18:41 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-03 00:45 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-30 01:54 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-29 22:34 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-29 04:40 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-27 12:16 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-26 15:42 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-26 23:31 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-26 17:47 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-25 21:04 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-25 12:05 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-25 21:19 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-08-25 07:23 -0400
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