Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.python > #48623
| Path | csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail |
|---|---|
| Return-Path | <python-python-list@m.gmane.org> |
| X-Original-To | python-list@python.org |
| Delivered-To | python-list@mail.python.org |
| X-Spam-Status | OK 0.066 |
| X-Spam-Evidence | '*H*': 0.87; '*S*': 0.00; 'broken': 0.04; '*not*': 0.07; 'abuse': 0.07; 'expectation': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'rfc': 0.09; 'solution,': 0.09; 'behaviour.': 0.16; 'benjamin': 0.16; 'errors:': 0.16; 'finney': 0.16; 'merely': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'fix': 0.17; 'solution.': 0.20; 'proposed': 0.22; 'saying': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'propose': 0.24; 'header': 0.24; 'switch': 0.26; 'header:X -Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'function': 0.29; 'specifically': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'field,': 0.30; 'needed.': 0.30; 'robert': 0.30; 'sets': 0.30; 'then.': 0.30; 'vendor': 0.30; 'gives': 0.31; 'accidentally': 0.31; 'breaking': 0.31; 'reply-to': 0.31; 'writes:': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'lists': 0.32; 'themselves': 0.32; 'whom': 0.33; 'subject:the': 0.34; "can't": 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'described': 0.36; 'done': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'list': 0.37; 'list.': 0.37; 'easily': 0.37; 'button': 0.38; 'skip:o 20': 0.38; 'ben': 0.38; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.38; 'list,': 0.38; 'though,': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'mailing': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'called': 0.40; 'reaching': 0.61; 'simply': 0.61; 'simple': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'reach': 0.63; 'information': 0.63; 'field': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'chance': 0.65; 'skip:\xe2 10': 0.65; 'world': 0.66; 'reply': 0.66; 'direct': 0.67; '8bit%:40': 0.68; '8bit%:43': 0.74; 'anyone.': 0.74; '\xe2\x80\x93': 0.77; 'directed': 0.83; 'choose.': 0.84; 'interference': 0.84; 'oscar': 0.84; 'invites': 0.91; 'subject:Don': 0.91; 'responses': 0.93; 'contrary': 0.95; 'serious': 0.97 |
| X-Injected-Via-Gmane | http://gmane.org/ |
| To | python-list@python.org |
| From | Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Date | Tue, 18 Jun 2013 22:21:58 +1000 |
| References | <7wfvwkcihf.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20130615020957.GA72426@cskk.homeip.net> <7w61xfa9y8.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <mailman.3375.1371297517.3114.python-list@python.org> <51bc8af2$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.3386.1371314532.3114.python-list@python.org> <kpn73s$qha$1@reader1.panix.com> <20130617123548.47281099@imp> <CAHVvXxQ9--YOaoTT-B3xt4SuKCYS=oetgObGUHjqRhwuYH6soQ@mail.gmail.com> |
| Mime-Version | 1.0 |
| Content-Type | text/plain; charset=utf-8 |
| Content-Transfer-Encoding | 8bit |
| X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host | rasputin.madmonks.org |
| X-Public-Key-ID | 0xBD41714B |
| X-Public-Key-Fingerprint | 9CFE 12B0 791A 4267 887F 520C B7AC 2E51 BD41 714B |
| X-Public-Key-URL | http://www.benfinney.id.au/contact/bfinney-gpg.asc |
| X-Post-From | Ben Finney <bignose+hates-spam@benfinney.id.au> |
| User-Agent | Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) |
| Cancel-Lock | sha1:KAKbED7QzbCcDK7XHrBTVd/fLjE= |
| X-BeenThere | python-list@python.org |
| X-Mailman-Version | 2.1.15 |
| Precedence | list |
| List-Id | General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org> |
| List-Unsubscribe | <http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe> |
| List-Archive | <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/> |
| List-Post | <mailto:python-list@python.org> |
| List-Help | <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help> |
| List-Subscribe | <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3528.1371558137.3114.python-list@python.org> (permalink) |
| Lines | 61 |
| NNTP-Posting-Host | 2001:888:2000:d::a6 |
| X-Trace | 1371558137 news.xs4all.nl 15872 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:38567 |
| X-Complaints-To | abuse@xs4all.nl |
| Xref | csiph.com comp.lang.python:48623 |
Show key headers only | View raw
Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> writes: > There is a very simple solution used by many mailing lists Yes, that solution is described in RFC 2369: the “List-Post” field in the header of every message sent through the mailing list. > which is to set the Reply-To header to point back to the mailing list. That is not a solution, since the ‘Reply-To’ field already has a different purpose contrary to your intent. It is to be set by the person sending the message, if they choose. It is not for some intermediary to interfere with. It is a field for the sender to direct *individual* responses back to themselves – and, if they don't set that field, no intermediary should abuse it. > That way any old email client on any OS/computer/phone/website etc. > has the required button to reply to the list without CCing anyone. By breaking the standard “reply to author” behaviour. This is not a solution. The “List-Post” field has been standard for more than a decade. If anyone is using an MUA that doesn't use it, please imrpove that situation: pressure your vendor to fix that deficiency, and/or switch to a better mail client until then. > It also reduces the chance of accidentally replying off-list. What damage is done by accidentally replying off-list? At worst, you merely need to send the message again to the list. The damage is minimal, and easily rectified. Your proposed interference with the “Reply-To” field, though, invites much more serious errors: it sets up a person to send a message to people they did *not* intend, when using a function (“reply to author”, often simply called “reply”) specifically for reaching the sender *only*. If your message contains information only intended to be seen by the author to whom they are replying, the standard behaviour for “Reply-To” gives the reasonable expectation it will go only to the author. But if a broken mailing list that munges “Reply-To” to direct your reply to the whole mailing list, that is damage which can't be un-done. Please don't propose breaking standard behaviour by interfering with the meaning of standard fields. We have exactly the fields we need already: the RFC 2369 fields are in the header of every message from the mailing list. The “List-Post” field, saying where mail should be directed to reach the mailing list, is exactly what is needed. -- \ “Ours is a world where people don't know what they want and are | `\ willing to go through hell to get it.” —Donald Robert Perry | _o__) Marquis | Ben Finney
Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 07:58 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 15:40 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 18:41 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:12 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 20:30 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 10:36 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:52 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:18 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 19:29 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 14:47 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-15 23:04 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-16 20:16 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-16 20:04 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-16 20:46 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ferrous Cranus <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 08:04 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 17:23 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 07:41 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 07:43 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 18:03 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 11:16 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-17 23:22 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 18:08 -0700
Problems with Python documentation [Re: Don't feed the troll...] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-17 22:50 +0000
Re: Problems with Python documentation [Re: Don't feed the troll...] Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 21:11 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 10:26 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 10:15 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 10:56 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-18 10:22 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:42 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-18 20:46 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-19 12:57 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-19 14:13 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-21 21:32 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-23 07:29 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-24 15:37 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-25 08:56 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-26 21:46 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 15:02 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-27 20:13 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-28 11:20 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-30 19:25 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-01 07:02 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 21:38 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-02 16:41 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 00:09 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 11:50 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-30 19:56 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 11:25 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-26 20:18 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 12:40 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-20 00:47 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-19 19:45 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-20 11:41 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 20:40 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-21 11:18 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 10:19 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 11:27 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 09:31 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-17 23:02 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-18 11:02 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-15 12:54 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 23:04 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-15 13:12 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 22:52 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-16 20:39 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Simpleton <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 19:03 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-17 16:14 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Simpleton <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 19:19 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 21:39 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 17:21 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:38 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-18 19:48 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-19 03:57 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-18 20:49 -0700
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 17:07 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-19 07:27 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 17:33 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 11:53 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:49 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-15 18:45 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 19:58 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-17 14:39 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-17 12:35 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 18:42 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... Νίκος <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 20:52 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-06-18 22:21 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 13:07 -0400
Mailman forwarding (was: Don't feed the troll...) "W. Trevor King" <wking@tremily.us> - 2013-06-15 13:25 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 19:25 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:47 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 21:59 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 09:09 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-16 00:51 +0000
CC etiquette for mailing lists (was: Don't feed the troll...) "W. Trevor King" <wking@tremily.us> - 2013-06-15 21:29 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 13:04 -0400
csiph-web