Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #21106

Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!

Path csiph.com!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path <anikom15@gmail.com>
X-Original-To python-list@python.org
Delivered-To python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status OK 0.012
X-Spam-Evidence '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.01; 'languages,': 0.03; 'operator': 0.04; 'perl,': 0.05; 'suppose': 0.05; 'symbols': 0.07; 'correct.': 0.09; 'expressions.': 0.09; 'precedence': 0.09; 'binary': 0.13; 'ball.': 0.16; 'evaluates': 0.16; 'operands.': 0.16; 'operators,': 0.16; 'order)': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'worse,': 0.16; 'wed,': 0.17; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'level,': 0.18; 'perl': 0.18; 'java,': 0.19; 'programming': 0.20; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'feb': 0.22; 'all:': 0.23; 'so-called': 0.23; 'math': 0.24; 'all,': 0.27; 'function': 0.27; 'language.': 0.28; 'order.': 0.28; 'problem': 0.29; 'confused': 0.30; 'confusion': 0.30; 'context,': 0.30; 'received:209.85.210.46': 0.30; 'received:mail- pz0-f46.google.com': 0.30; 'pretty': 0.31; 'words,': 0.32; 'does': 0.32; 'that,': 0.32; 'yet': 0.32; "isn't": 0.33; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.33; 'it.': 0.33; 'rules': 0.34; 'lee': 0.34; 'symbol': 0.34; 'which,': 0.34; 'operations': 0.35; 'from:charset:iso-8859-1': 0.35; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.35; '(for': 0.35; 'two': 0.36; 'example,': 0.37; 'received:google.com': 0.37; 'another': 0.37; 'either': 0.37; 'received:209.85': 0.38; 'think': 0.38; 'getting': 0.38; 'describe': 0.39; 'received:209': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'easy': 0.60; 'header:Received:6': 0.61; 'more': 0.61; 'url:v': 0.61; '8bit%:23': 0.62; 'property': 0.63; 'is.': 0.63; 'our': 0.63; 'subject:!': 0.66; '8bit%:35': 0.67; 'limit': 0.67; 'placed': 0.69; '(one': 0.73; '29,': 0.73; 'explanations': 0.73; 'skip:\xe2 10': 0.74; 'algebra': 0.84; 'subject:After': 0.84; 'subject:Science': 0.84; 'xah': 0.84; 'evaluation.': 0.91; '8bit%:18': 0.95; 'absolutely': 0.98
Received-SPF pass (google.com: domain of anikom15@gmail.com designates 10.68.243.197 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.68.243.197;
Authentication-Results mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of anikom15@gmail.com designates 10.68.243.197 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=anikom15@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=anikom15@gmail.com
DKIM-Signature v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=Y+fnFg2dixxCDEA4FCF3fvCIFnRo5/lCj9jG/alaM7M=; b=PgKmWKRv8OMlnMRSvczfE5NJWFiSRJ2uAjd+k5pDFX1Nj5YyUZzoHrbKWZ017fqprG yM0qVnlodnidaRIAzIvcEBe4peRTEhWYtd0xVAB5Wt6YBf1St63qzfSYo7twLpekn95n G7thBi3nm+kBdQvzYvLApXY+0byDsQP+zx+TliJ4R07Zu2xKQGxdLv012Fb7Uhat+DDh nn19fihcRw7HugNEXwdz5yYfpL2AGKUQaORZaFWKJCm/6FanjUh1cbupgA1rsXV37F4N ACWgfTxk/CgHOzK2foJHYjUZVoL/sakv4JZ/THpknAx1XxsTjp4hrmMsJu9zIKRDKaXj dteg==
Date Thu, 1 Mar 2012 16:46:52 -0800
From Westley Martínez <anikom15@gmail.com>
To python-list@python.org
Subject Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!
References <0078bbfb-5dfc-48fc-af1a-69de3cf15c3e@b1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version 1.0
Content-Type text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding 8bit
In-Reply-To <0078bbfb-5dfc-48fc-af1a-69de3cf15c3e@b1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
User-Agent Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-BeenThere python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version 2.1.12
Precedence list
List-Id General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe <http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list>
List-Post <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.334.1330649220.3037.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
Lines 37
NNTP-Posting-Host 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace 1330649220 news.xs4all.nl 6927 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:53418
X-Complaints-To abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref csiph.com comp.lang.python:21106

Show key headers only | View raw

First of all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5jKMEB4hHE

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 12:09:16AM -0800, Xah Lee wrote:
> Now, let me tell you what operator precedence is. First of all, let's
> limit ourselfs to discuss operators that are so-called binary
> operators, which, in our context, basically means single symbol
> operator that takes it's left and right side as operands. Now, each
> symbol have a “precedence”, or in other words, the set of operators
> has a order. (one easy way to think of this is that, suppose you have
> n symbols, then you give each a number, from 1 to n, as their order)
> So, when 2 symbols are placed side by side such as 「3 △ 6 ▲ 5」, the
> symbol with higher precedence wins. Another easy way to think of this
> is that each operator has a stickiness level. The higher its level, it
> more sticky it is.

You're absolutely correct.

> the problem with the perl explanations is that it's one misleading
> confusion ball. It isn't about “left/right associativity”. It isn't
> about “evaluates from left to right or right to left”. Worse, the word
> “associativity” is a math term that describe a property of algebra
> that has nothing to do with operator precedence, yet is easily
> confused with because it is a property about order of evaluation. (for
> example, the addition function is associative, meaning: 「(3+6)+5 =
> 3+(6+5)」.)

You're not getting it.

Math is a language.  Perl is a language.  They have different rules for
grammar.  In Perl, C, Python, Java, and pretty much all procedural-based
languages, operations are evaluated in two steps: the precedence /and/
the associativity.  Each level of precedence has its own associativity,
either left-to-right or right-to-left.  You can see this in table 2-1 in
The C Programming Language.  Whatever math does or what you think math
does has nothing to do with the way Perl evaluates expressions.

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2012-02-29 00:09 -0800
  Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Chiron <chiron613@gmail.com> - 2012-02-29 11:43 +0000
    Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-02-29 07:12 -0500
    Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detracters Remain Idiots After A Decade! Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2012-02-29 23:06 -0500
      Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detracters Remain Idiots After A Decade! Chiron <chiron613@gmail.com> - 2012-03-01 04:52 +0000
        Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detracters Remain Idiots After A Decade! Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2012-03-01 10:07 -0500
  Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> - 2012-02-29 13:08 +0100
    Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2012-02-29 16:02 -0800
      Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> - 2012-03-01 12:00 +0100
        Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2012-03-02 05:12 -0800
          Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> - 2012-03-02 15:15 +0100
  Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2012-02-29 15:15 +0000
    Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> - 2012-02-29 17:18 +0100
    Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2012-02-29 23:10 -0500
      Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af Chiron <chiron613@gmail.com> - 2012-03-01 05:07 +0000
        Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2012-03-01 10:13 -0500
          Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af Chiron <chiron613@gmail.com> - 2012-03-02 14:17 +0000
            Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detractors Remain Idiots After A Decade! Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2012-03-02 10:53 -0500
              Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detractors Remain Idiots After A Decade! Chiron <chiron613@gmail.com> - 2012-03-02 19:06 +0000
        Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-03-01 16:58 -0500
      Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2012-03-01 14:40 +0000
        Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2012-03-01 16:11 -0500
  Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! namekuseijin <namekuseijin@gmail.com> - 2012-02-29 09:45 -0800
  Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Westley Martínez <anikom15@gmail.com> - 2012-03-01 16:46 -0800
  Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Chiron <chiron613@gmail.com> - 2012-03-02 07:27 +0000
  Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-03-12 11:27 +0000
    Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detractors Remain Idiots After A Decade Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2012-03-12 08:40 -0400
      Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detractors Remain Idiots After A Decade Raymond Wiker <raw@unknown-00-23-6c-8d-9e-26.lan> - 2012-03-12 19:20 +0100
    Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> - 2012-03-12 14:05 +0100
      Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-03-12 19:00 +0000
        Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> - 2012-03-12 21:27 +0100
        Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> - 2012-03-13 12:00 +0100
        Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> - 2012-03-13 12:03 +0100
        Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2012-03-12 16:20 -0400
        Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade! Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> - 2012-03-13 17:41 +0100

csiph-web