Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #54007

Re: Language design

Path csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path <python-python-list@m.gmane.org>
X-Original-To python-list@python.org
Delivered-To python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status OK 0.003
X-Spam-Evidence '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'languages.': 0.04; 'importing': 0.05; 'expectation': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:design': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'collections': 0.16; 'filesystem,': 0.16; 'finney': 0.16; 'imports': 0.16; 'janssen': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'subject:Language': 0.16; 'module': 0.19; 'import': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'circular': 0.24; 'source': 0.25; 'equivalent': 0.26; 'task': 0.26; 'skip:" 20': 0.27; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; "doesn't": 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'writes:': 0.31; 'file': 0.32; 'class': 0.32; 'languages': 0.32; 'quite': 0.32; 'but': 0.35; 'add': 0.35; 'ben': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'simply': 0.61; 'simple': 0.61; "you'll": 0.62; 'address': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'nobody': 0.68; 'complex,': 0.84; 'difficult?': 0.84; 'hill': 0.95
X-Injected-Via-Gmane http://gmane.org/
To python-list@python.org
From Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au>
Subject Re: Language design
Date Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:19:58 +1000
References <522eb795$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <7wbo412m02.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <CAMjeLr-1ww2bM6y02mY=TQx2BeEe=oAN5H7wNfoGM=y2rWwUag@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version 1.0
Content-Type text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding 8bit
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host rasputin.madmonks.org
X-Public-Key-ID 0xBD41714B
X-Public-Key-Fingerprint 9CFE 12B0 791A 4267 887F 520C B7AC 2E51 BD41 714B
X-Public-Key-URL http://www.benfinney.id.au/contact/bfinney-gpg.asc
X-Post-From Ben Finney <bignose+hates-spam@benfinney.id.au>
User-Agent Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock sha1:lJkpkcTxoCbFFuUYBrFZ3uE8r6M=
X-BeenThere python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version 2.1.15
Precedence list
List-Id General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.278.1378942208.5461.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
Lines 28
NNTP-Posting-Host 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace 1378942208 news.xs4all.nl 15878 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:41882
X-Complaints-To abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref csiph.com comp.lang.python:54007

Show key headers only | View raw

Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> writes:

> > * Imports are fiendishly complex, hidden below deceptively simple
> >   syntax.
> >
> >   It's a reasonable expectation that one can import a module from a
> >   source code file given its path on the filesystem, but this turns out
> >   to be much more complicated than in many other languages.
>
> Why is this so difficult?

I don't know, you'll have to ask the people who designed it that way.

> Add a Graph class to the collections module (networkx is quite good)
> and simply check for circular imports.

Er? That doesn't address the task of importing a module from a source
code file given its path on the filesystem.

Other languages have the equivalent of ‘include "/path/to/file.py"’, but
Python doesn't. That's the misdesign I'm describing.

-- 
 \      “Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are |
  `\                                             perfect.” —Benny Hill |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Language design Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-10 06:09 +0000
  Re: Language design diverman <pavel@schon.cz> - 2013-09-09 23:59 -0700
  Re: Language design Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-09-10 17:07 +1000
    Re: Language design Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-09-11 01:03 +0100
      Re: Language design Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-11 00:53 +0000
        Re: Language design Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-09-12 18:23 +0100
  Re: Language design Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-09-10 09:58 +0200
  Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 20:20 +1000
  Re: Language design Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2013-09-10 18:46 -0700
  Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-11 14:21 +1000
  Re: Language design Burak Arslan <burak.arslan@arskom.com.tr> - 2013-09-11 13:38 +0300
    Re: Language design Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-09-11 14:32 +0000
      Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 00:46 +1000
  Re: Language design Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-09-11 06:42 -0500
  Re: Language design Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-09-11 12:05 +0000
  Re: Language design Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-09-11 07:52 -0700
  Re: Language design Burak Arslan <burak.arslan@arskom.com.tr> - 2013-09-11 18:41 +0300
  Re: Language design Markus Rother <python@markusrother.de> - 2013-09-11 22:41 +0200
    Re: Language design Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-11 23:40 +0000
  Re: Language design Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-09-11 14:22 -0700
  Re: Language design Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-09-11 14:30 -0700
    Re: Language design Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-11 23:40 +0000
      Re: Language design Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-09-11 17:49 -0700
        Re: Language design Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-12 05:33 +0000
          Re: Language design Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 20:23 -0700
            Re: Language design Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-13 05:08 +0000
              Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 17:39 +1000
              Re: Language design Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-09-14 19:37 -0700
              Re: Language design Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-09-15 09:57 +0200
      Re: Language design Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-09-11 21:40 -0400
      Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 11:41 +1000
  Re: Language design Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-09-11 14:15 -0700
  RE: Language design "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com.dmarc.invalid> - 2013-09-11 21:56 +0000
  Re: Language design Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-09-12 09:16 +1000
  Please omit false legalese footers (was: Language design) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-09-12 09:22 +1000
    Re: Please omit false legalese footers (was: Language design) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 20:12 +0000
  Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 09:27 +1000
  Re: Language design Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-09-12 09:19 +1000
  Re: Language design Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-09-11 19:51 -0400
  Re: Language design Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-09-11 17:25 -0700
  Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 10:31 +1000
    Re: Language design Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-12 02:33 +0000
      Re: Language design Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-09-11 22:43 -0400
        Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 12:58 +1000
        Re: Language design Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-12 05:08 +0000
  Re: Language design Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-09-11 17:34 -0700
  Re: Language design Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-09-11 17:37 -0700
  Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 10:40 +1000
  Re: Language design Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-09-11 17:54 -0700
  Re: Language design Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-09-12 10:57 +1000
  Re: Language design Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-09-12 05:17 +0100
  Re: Please omit false legalese footers (was: Language design) Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-09-12 04:27 -0500
  Re: Please omit false legalese footers (was: Language design) Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 10:44 +0100
  Re: Language design Markus Rother <python@markusrother.de> - 2013-09-12 19:51 +0200
    Re: Language design Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-09-12 18:06 +0000
  Re: Language design Markus Rother <python@markusrother.de> - 2013-09-12 20:13 +0200
  Re: Language design Markus Rother <python@markusrother.de> - 2013-09-12 20:24 +0200
    Re: Language design Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-09-12 19:18 +0000
  Re: Language design Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-09-12 11:05 -0700
  Re: Language design Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-09-12 14:37 -0400
  Re: Language design Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-09-12 14:46 -0400
  Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 07:53 +1000
  Re: Language design Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-09-13 09:04 +0200
    Re: Language design Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-13 10:13 +0000
      Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 21:16 +1000
      Re: Language design Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-09-13 13:28 +0200
      Re: Language design Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-09-13 15:32 -0400
      Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-14 09:57 +1000
        Re: Language design Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-09-18 14:57 +0000
          Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-19 01:02 +1000
            Re: Language design Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-09-18 15:08 +0000
              Re: Language design Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-19 01:12 +1000
              Re: Language design William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com> - 2013-09-18 12:58 -0400
                Re: Language design wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-09-18 10:45 -0700
                Re: Language design Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-09-18 17:55 +0000
      Re: Language design Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 17:28 -0700
      Re: Language design Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio@gmail.com> - 2013-09-14 07:25 +0200

csiph-web