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RE: Short-circuit Logic

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> From: steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info
> Subject: Re: Short-circuit Logic
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 05:13:51 +0000
> To: python-list@python.org
>
> On Fri, 31 May 2013 00:03:13 +0300, Carlos Nepomuceno wrote:
>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> From: steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info Subject: Re: Short-circuit
>>> Logic
>>> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 05:42:17 +0000 To: python-list@python.org
>> [...]
>>> Here's another way, mathematically equivalent (although not necessarily
>>> equivalent using floating point computations!) which avoids the
>>> divide-by- zero problem:
>>>
>>> abs(a - b) < epsilon*a
>>
>> That's wrong! If abs(a) < abs(a-b)/epsilon you will break the
>> commutative law. For example:
>
> What makes you think that the commutative law is relevant here?

How can't you see?

I'll requote a previous message:

}On Thu, 30 May 2013 13:45:13 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
} 
}> Let's suppose someone is told to compare floating point numbers by
}> seeing if the absolute value of the difference is less than some
}> epsilon. 
} 
}Which is usually the wrong way to do it! Normally one would prefer 
}*relative* error, not absolute:
 
Since we are considering Chris's supposition ("to compare floating point numbers") it's totally relevant to understand how that operation can be correctly implemented.


> Many things break the commutative law, starting with division and
> subtraction:
>
> 20 - 10 != 10 - 20
>
> 1/2 != 2/1
>
> Most comparison operators other than equality and inequality:
>
> (23 < 42) != (42 < 23)
>
> String concatenation:
>
> "Hello" + "World" != "World" + "Hello"
>
> Many operations in the real world:
>
> put on socks, then shoes != put on shoes, then socks.
>

That's is totally irrelevant in this case. The commutative law is essential to the equality operation.

> But you are correct that approximately-equal using *relative* error is
> not commutative. (Absolute error, on the other hand, is commutative.) As
> I said, any form of "approximate equality" has gotchas. But this gotcha
> is simple to overcome:
>
> abs(a -b) < eps*max(abs(a), abs(b))
>
> (Knuth's "approximately equal to" which you give.)
>
>
>> This discussion reminded me of TAOCP and I paid a visit and bring the
>> following functions:
>
> "TAOCP"?

The Art of Computer Programming[1]! An old book full of excellent stuff! A MUST READ!!!! ;)

http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/taocp.html

[1] Knuth, Donald (1981). The Art of Computer Programming. 2nd ed. Vol. 2. p. 218. Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-201-03822-6.

>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 		 	   		  

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Thread

Short-circuit Logic Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-26 04:11 -0700
  Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-26 07:38 -0400
  Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-26 12:13 +0000
    Re: Short-circuit Logic Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 13:11 -0700
      Re: Short-circuit Logic Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-05-28 01:10 +0100
        Re: Short-circuit Logic Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 01:39 -0700
          RE: Short-circuit Logic Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-05-28 12:32 +0300
          Re: Short-circuit Logic Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-28 12:45 +0100
          Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-28 13:51 +0000
            Re: Short-circuit Logic Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-28 15:14 +0000
              Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-28 15:55 +0000
      Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-28 13:48 +0000
        Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 00:01 +1000
        Re: Short-circuit Logic Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 07:27 -0700
          Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 00:32 +1000
          Re: Short-circuit Logic rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 07:33 -0700
            Re: Short-circuit Logic Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 10:50 -0600
              Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 02:28 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 13:45 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 05:42 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-05-30 10:22 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 08:29 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-05-30 12:07 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-05-30 23:55 +0100
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-05-30 19:31 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Stefan Drees <stefan@drees.name> - 2013-05-31 17:34 +0200
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-30 08:48 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-05-30 19:38 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-05-31 02:10 +0100
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-30 21:21 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-05-30 21:57 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 21:33 -0600
                RE: Short-circuit Logic Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-05-31 03:03 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 18:29 +1000
                RE: Short-circuit Logic Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-05-31 00:03 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-31 05:13 +0000
                RE: Short-circuit Logic Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-05-31 09:42 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-31 08:11 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 17:09 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-31 08:45 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-31 09:20 -0400
                RE: Short-circuit Logic Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-06-01 10:23 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 20:11 -0700
            Re: Short-circuit Logic Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-05-29 20:23 -0400
              Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 05:20 +0000
          Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 05:10 +0000
            Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 15:22 +1000
              Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-30 08:40 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 22:58 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 09:58 -0700
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 03:23 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 17:13 -0700
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 12:29 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-05-30 08:02 -0700
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 01:56 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 16:40 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 19:22 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 07:46 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-05-30 09:30 -0700
              Re: Short-circuit Logic Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-05-30 19:30 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 13:49 -0600
  Re: Short-circuit Logic Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-05-26 16:19 -0400
    Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-26 16:22 -0400
      Re: Short-circuit Logic Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-05-26 17:28 -0400
      Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-27 00:40 +0000
        Re: Short-circuit Logic Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-05-27 11:57 +1000
        Re: Short-circuit Logic rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-05-26 21:44 -0700
        Re: Short-circuit Logic Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 06:59 +0200
  Re: Short-circuit Logic Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-05-27 18:52 +0100
  Re: Short-circuit Logic Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 13:08 -0700
    Re: Short-circuit Logic Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-05-27 21:36 -0400

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