Re: Short-circuit Logic

Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Date	2013-05-27 13:11 -0700
References	<5f101d70-e51f-4531-9153-c92ee2486fd9@googlegroups.com> <51a1fc7b$0$30002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID	<2abf4e9c-8c3b-4e2f-80c9-50c1f1d75c9d@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Short-circuit Logic
From	Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com>

Show all headers | View raw

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:13:47 PM UTC+2, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 26 May 2013 04:11:56 -0700, Ahmed Abdulshafy wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> > I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around short-circuit logic
> 
> > that's used by Python, coming from a C/C++ background; so I don't
> 
> > understand why the following condition is written this way!
> 
> > 
> 
> >      if not allow_zero and abs(x) < sys.float_info.epsilon:
> 
> >                 print("zero is not allowed")
> 
> 
> 
> Follow the logic.
> 
> 
> 
> If allow_zero is a true value, then "not allow_zero" is False, and the 
> 
> "and" clause cannot evaluate to true. (False and X is always False.) So 
> 
> print is not called.
> 
> 
> 
> If allow_zero is a false value, then "not allow_zero" is True, and the 
> 
> "and" clause depends on the second argument. (True and X is always X.) So
> 
> abs(x) < sys.float_info.epsilon is tested, and if that is True, print is 
> 
> called.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, I don't think much of this logic. Values smaller than epsilon 
> 
> are not necessarily zero:
> 
> 
> 
> py> import sys
> 
> py> epsilon = sys.float_info.epsilon
> 
> py> x = epsilon/10000
> 
> py> x == 0
> 
> False
> 
> py> x * 3 == 0
> 
> False
> 
> py> x + epsilon == 0
> 
> False
> 
> py> x + epsilon == epsilon
> 
> False
> 
> 
> 
> The above logic throws away many perfectly good numbers and treats them 
> 
> as zero even though they aren't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > The purpose of this snippet is to print the given line when allow_zero
> 
> > is False and x is 0.
> 
> 
> 
> Then the snippet utterly fails at that, since it prints the line for many 
> 
> values of x which can be distinguished from zero. The way to test whether 
> 
> x equals zero is:
> 
> 
> 
> x == 0
> 
> 
> 
> What the above actually tests for is whether x is so small that (1.0+x) 
> 
> cannot be distinguished from 1.0, which is not the same thing. It is also 
> 
> quite arbitrary. Why 1.0? Why not (0.0001+x)? Or (0.00000001+x)? Or 
> 
> (10000.0+x)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Steven

That may be true for integers, but for floats, testing for equality is not always precise

Thread

Short-circuit Logic Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-26 04:11 -0700
  Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-26 07:38 -0400
  Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-26 12:13 +0000
    Re: Short-circuit Logic Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 13:11 -0700
      Re: Short-circuit Logic Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-05-28 01:10 +0100
        Re: Short-circuit Logic Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 01:39 -0700
          RE: Short-circuit Logic Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-05-28 12:32 +0300
          Re: Short-circuit Logic Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-28 12:45 +0100
          Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-28 13:51 +0000
            Re: Short-circuit Logic Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-28 15:14 +0000
              Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-28 15:55 +0000
      Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-28 13:48 +0000
        Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 00:01 +1000
        Re: Short-circuit Logic Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 07:27 -0700
          Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 00:32 +1000
          Re: Short-circuit Logic rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 07:33 -0700
            Re: Short-circuit Logic Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 10:50 -0600
              Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 02:28 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 13:45 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 05:42 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-05-30 10:22 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 08:29 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-05-30 12:07 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-05-30 23:55 +0100
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-05-30 19:31 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Stefan Drees <stefan@drees.name> - 2013-05-31 17:34 +0200
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-30 08:48 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-05-30 19:38 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-05-31 02:10 +0100
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-30 21:21 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-05-30 21:57 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 21:33 -0600
                RE: Short-circuit Logic Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-05-31 03:03 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 18:29 +1000
                RE: Short-circuit Logic Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-05-31 00:03 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-31 05:13 +0000
                RE: Short-circuit Logic Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-05-31 09:42 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-31 08:11 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 17:09 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-31 08:45 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-31 09:20 -0400
                RE: Short-circuit Logic Carlos Nepomuceno <carlosnepomuceno@outlook.com> - 2013-06-01 10:23 +0300
                Re: Short-circuit Logic 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 20:11 -0700
            Re: Short-circuit Logic Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-05-29 20:23 -0400
              Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 05:20 +0000
          Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 05:10 +0000
            Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 15:22 +1000
              Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-30 08:40 -0400
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 22:58 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 09:58 -0700
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 03:23 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 17:13 -0700
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 12:29 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-05-30 08:02 -0700
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 01:56 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 16:40 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-30 19:22 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 07:46 +1000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-05-30 09:30 -0700
              Re: Short-circuit Logic Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-05-30 19:30 +0000
                Re: Short-circuit Logic Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 13:49 -0600
  Re: Short-circuit Logic Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-05-26 16:19 -0400
    Re: Short-circuit Logic Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-26 16:22 -0400
      Re: Short-circuit Logic Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-05-26 17:28 -0400
      Re: Short-circuit Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-27 00:40 +0000
        Re: Short-circuit Logic Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-05-27 11:57 +1000
        Re: Short-circuit Logic rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-05-26 21:44 -0700
        Re: Short-circuit Logic Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 06:59 +0200
  Re: Short-circuit Logic Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-05-27 18:52 +0100
  Re: Short-circuit Logic Ahmed Abdulshafy <abdulshafy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 13:08 -0700
    Re: Short-circuit Logic Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-05-27 21:36 -0400

csiph-web