Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #91069

Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages

Path csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!1.eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com>
X-Original-To python-list@python.org
Delivered-To python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status OK 0.000
X-Spam-Evidence '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'operator': 0.03; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'mrab': 0.05; 'rejected': 0.05; 'type,': 0.07; '22,': 0.09; 'creighton': 0.09; 'instance.': 0.09; 'typeerror:': 0.09; 'types:': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'example:': 0.11; 'value.': 0.15; 'logical.': 0.16; 'object()': 0.16; 'sentinel': 0.16; 'typeof': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'string': 0.17; 'basically': 0.18; 'integer': 0.18; 'laura': 0.18; 'refers': 0.18; 'versions': 0.20; 'fix': 0.21; 'saying': 0.22; 'object.': 0.22; 'suppose': 0.22; '2015': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'properties': 0.24; 'equivalent': 0.27; 'wonder': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'subject:other': 0.29; 'fri,': 0.31; 'subject:all': 0.32; 'null': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.34; 'could': 0.35; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.35; 'acceptable': 0.35; 'exist': 0.35; 'instance': 0.35; 'replace': 0.35; 'sometimes': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'too': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'should': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'doing': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'some': 0.40; 'even': 0.61; 'caused': 0.61; 'home': 0.67; 'discover': 0.73; 'subject:have': 0.80; "'object'": 0.84; 'conclude': 0.84; 'to:name:python': 0.84; 'subject:you': 0.88
DKIM-Signature v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=mrqeHkJ745F/qVxyGKqdXg4aAq0pdKEMX/ntLlDlo4M=; b=y+LzF+M2Y2EatDssce/GZniSMDumMuqtjfXepTBkUCBi/McDYwY1b7hMZA3XAqnX4R XxtZaCqcTaxq1vaPcR3qsRpbElvO9wokass6LnBZ76nGBxmswgEa3hVzdGCVSivRj1cs 3AFiBwGivEKkhed5FC+8rFO9l0ym2JROq6oZSdTrRkOBxByDiJNJFInpMVDxwA3QVUre KfeakkPpXqFKplULmLYfEg2ft5ws/4CHgDPxcPxrpr8zlr5A6VJenM+zqbcefc6uA1Ig GxHtl3gBmChAAvzT7MrRKZTSep9EN5z9Kn9MeRAdRmdGeSCbr/ufu/Kig6SmBVNCIbbH 1vOw==
X-Received by 10.50.225.35 with SMTP id rh3mr7794910igc.29.1432324656585; Fri, 22 May 2015 12:57:36 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version 1.0
In-Reply-To <555F84CD.9010204@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References <555f440a$0$12990$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mjnq3r$p48$1@reader1.panix.com> <201505221914.t4MJE3e9009120@fido.openend.se> <555F84CD.9010204@mrabarnett.plus.com>
From Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com>
Date Fri, 22 May 2015 13:56:56 -0600
Subject Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages
To Python <python-list@python.org>
Content-Type text/plain; charset=UTF-8
X-BeenThere python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version 2.1.20+
Precedence list
List-Id General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.238.1432324665.17265.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
Lines 53
NNTP-Posting-Host 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace 1432324665 news.xs4all.nl 2932 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:41164
X-Complaints-To abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref csiph.com comp.lang.python:91069

Show key headers only | View raw

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 1:34 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 2015-05-22 20:14, Laura Creighton wrote:
>>
>> The first time you discover that in javascript typeof(null) is 'object'
>> and
>> not 'null' you will scream.  I wonder how many home versions of typeof
>> to replace the system one exist out in the wild?
>>
> I don't think that typeof(null) should be 'null'.
>
> If the type of an integer instance is the integer type and the type of
> a string instance is the string type, then the type of null should be
> the null type, not a null instance.
>
> I suppose that you could consider that what JavaScript is doing is
> equivalent to saying in Python that:
>
>     None = object()
>
> like you sometimes do when you want a unique sentinel because None
> itself would be an acceptable value.

If only it were that logical. null in Javascript is a primitive type.
Here's what typeof returns on some other primitive types:

js> typeof(4)
"number"
js> typeof(4.5)
"number"
js> typeof('hello')
"string"
js> typeof(true)
"boolean"
js> typeof(undefined)
"undefined"

An "object" in Javascript is basically just a collection of
properties. For example:

js> typeof([1, 2, 3])
"object"
js> typeof({a: 1, b: 2, c: 3})
"object"

Here's what happens when you try to access a property on null:

js> null.foo
typein:18:0 TypeError: null has no properties

We can conclude that null is not an object. Even the MDN reference
page for the typeof operator refers to this as "bogus". There was a
proposal to fix this in ECMAScript 5.1, but it was rejected because it
caused too much breakage.

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-23 00:58 +1000
  Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 01:29 +1000
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-05-22 10:57 -0700
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-05-22 16:40 -0500
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-05-22 16:40 -0500
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-05-22 21:54 -0400
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-05-23 06:12 -0500
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-05-23 06:12 -0500
          Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-05-23 13:26 -0400
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 21:31 -0600
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-05-23 08:55 +0200
          Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-05-23 06:21 -0500
            Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-05-23 15:24 +0200
              Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-23 20:05 +0300
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-05-24 20:29 +0200
          Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-23 15:44 +0300
            Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-05-23 15:17 +0200
            Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-24 00:00 +1000
              Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-23 19:53 +0300
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-24 03:41 +1000
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-23 22:02 +0300
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-24 20:26 +1000
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-24 18:26 +0300
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-25 01:35 +1000
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-25 09:57 +0300
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-05-25 11:39 +0200
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-25 21:09 +1000
            Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 21:00 -0600
              Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-24 11:23 +0300
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 22:10 -0600
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages amber <amber.of.luxor@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 04:11 +0000
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-05-23 06:11 -0500
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-05-23 06:11 -0500
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-05-23 14:20 +1000
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 22:30 -0600
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-05-23 11:10 +0000
          Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2015-05-23 06:34 -0500
          Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 21:40 +1000
          Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 20:57 -0600
          Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-24 01:22 -0600
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 22:29 -0600
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 22:49 -0600
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 14:49 +1000
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-05-23 06:29 -0500
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 14:55 +1000
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 14:28 +1000
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 14:21 +1000
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-05-23 14:33 +0200
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-23 23:01 +1000
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 23:12 +1000
          Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-05-23 23:37 -0700
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2015-05-23 06:35 -0700
          Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-24 00:09 +1000
          Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-06-07 10:21 +0200
            Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-07 21:42 +1000
              Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-07 22:08 +1000
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-07 23:24 +1000
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-08 00:47 +1000
              Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages random832@fastmail.us - 2015-06-07 10:58 -0400
                Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-08 02:28 +1000
  Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tony the Tiger <tony@tiger.invalid> - 2015-05-22 16:31 +0000
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-22 17:57 +0100
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-05-22 16:41 -0500
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tony the Tiger <tony@tiger.invalid> - 2015-05-23 20:25 +0000
  Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-22 17:47 +0000
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 04:11 +1000
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-05-22 19:19 +0100
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-05-22 21:14 +0200
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-23 11:36 +1000
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-05-22 20:34 +0100
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 13:56 -0600
      Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-22 23:34 +0300
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2015-05-22 15:55 -0500
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-05-22 14:15 -0700
        Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 15:20 -0600
  Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-05-22 16:00 -0700
    Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 21:33 -0600

csiph-web