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Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python

References <-JadnUirYuhUruPPnZ2dnUVZ8rSdnZ2d@bt.com>
From Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws>
Date 2013-11-09 13:27 +0000
Subject Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.2294.1384004023.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 9 November 2013 13:08, John von Horn <j.h69@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I'm Mr. Noobie here, I've just started easing into Python (2.7.4) and am
> enjoying working along to some youtube tutorials. I've done a little
> programming in the past.
>
> I've just got a few thoughts I'd like to share and ask about:
>
> * Why not allow floater=float(int1/int2) - rather than floater=float
> (int1)/float(int2)?
>
> Give me a float (or an error message) from evaluating everything in the
> brackets. Don't make me explicitly convert everything myself (unless I
> want to)

In Python 2, `int1/int2` does integer division. So
`float(that_result)` gives a truncated float.
`int1/float(int2)` obviously avoids this by dividing by a float.

If `float(int1/int2)` were to return the same value, `float` could not
be a normal function, and would have to be magic. Magic is bad.
Fortunately, Python 3 does the sane thing and just does floating-point
division by default. Great, eh?

> * No sign of a select .. case statement
>
> Another useful tool in the programmer's toolbox
>
> Select DayofWeek
>
>         case "mon"
>
>         ...
>
> end select

`select` is quite an odd statement, in that in most cases it's just a
weaker variant of `if`. By the time you're at the point where a
`select` is actually more readable you're also at the point where a
different control flow is probably a better idea. Things like
dictionaries or a variables pointing to functions are really useful
and can be encapsulated in a class quite well. This is a bit more
advanced but largely more rigorous.

But most of the time the idea is just that an `if` is more explicit,
and it's not like a `case` statement can be optimised as it can in
lower-level languages with simpler datatypes.

> * Call me pedantic by why do we need a trailing comma for a list of one
> item? Keep it intuitive and allow lstShopping=[] or ["Bread"] or
> ["Bread", "Milk","Hot Chocolate"] I don't like ["Bread",]. It bugs me.

You don't.

You might be confused because you need to write `("hello",)`, but
that's because the *comma* makes a *tuple*, not the brackets. Imagine
if `2 * (1/2)` gave you `(0.5, 0.5)`!

> Is everyone happy with the way things are? Could anyone recommend a good,
> high level language for CGI work? Not sure if I'm going to be happy with
> Perl (ahhh, get him, he's mentioned Perl and is a heretic!) or Python. I
> would very much value any constructive criticism or insights.

I don't know squat about CGI, but I think Python can grow on anyone
open to the idea of programming at a high level. Not "high level" as
in "expert" but as in "using higher-level constructs", if you get the
meaning. Python implements these quite well. Your first two complaints
are not new, though.

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Thread

New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python John von Horn <j.h69@btinternet.com> - 2013-11-09 07:08 -0600
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-09 05:22 -0800
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-11-09 13:27 +0000
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Jonathan <jtcegh@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 14:44 -0800
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 10:29 +1100
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-11-10 00:50 +0000
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 11:54 +1100
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-11-11 15:30 +0000
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2013-11-10 13:24 +0100
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-09 13:41 +0000
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-11-09 16:24 +0200
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 01:27 +1100
    Sandboxing Python [was Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-09 15:25 +0000
      Re: Sandboxing Python [was Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 02:32 +1100
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2013-11-10 08:47 +0000
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 20:22 +1100
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 04:39 -0700
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 22:43 +1100
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-10 12:12 -0500
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-11 10:29 +1100
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-10 19:13 -0500
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 07:38 -0800
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-11-09 10:56 -0500
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 08:30 -0800
        Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 21:36 -0800
          Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-11-11 09:01 -0500
            Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-11 07:14 -0800
            Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-11 21:05 -0500
            Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-11-12 14:38 -0800
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python John von Horn <j.h69@btinternet.com> - 2013-11-09 14:19 -0600
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-11-09 14:39 -0600
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 12:33 -0800
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-09 12:54 -0800
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 13:21 -0800
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-09 21:01 +0000
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-11-09 15:20 -0600
  Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python lorenzo.gatti@gmail.com - 2013-11-11 02:09 -0800
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-11 21:39 +1100
      Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-11 11:17 +0000
        Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-11 22:32 +1100
        Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-11-11 14:29 -0800
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-11-11 11:53 +0000
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-11 23:07 +1100
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-11-11 20:50 +0000
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-12 09:21 +1100
    Re: New user's initial thoughts / criticisms of Python Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-11-12 01:53 +0000

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