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Re: Article on the future of Python

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Date Thu, 27 Sep 2012 03:04:50 +1000
Subject Re: Article on the future of Python
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 2:52 AM, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> writes:
>> When you compare against a wide build, semantics of 3.2 and 3.3 are
>> identical, and then - and ONLY then - can you sanely compare
>> performance. And 3.3 stacks up much better.
>
> I like to have seen real world benchmarks against a pure UTF-8
> implementation.  That means O(n) access to the n'th character of a
> string which could theoretically slow some programs down terribly, but I
> wonder how often that actually matters in ways that can't easily be
> worked around.

That's pretty much what we have with the PHP parts of our web site.
We've decreed that everything should be UTF-8 byte streams (actually,
it took some major campaigning from me to get rid of the underlying
thinking that "binary-safe" and "UTF-8" and "characters" and so on
were all equivalent), but there are very few places where we actually
index strings in PHP. There's a small amount of parsing, but it's all
done by splitting on particular strings - if you search for 0x0A in a
UTF-8 bytestream and split at that index, it's the same as searching
for U+000A in a Unicode string and splitting there - and all of our
structural elements fit inside ASCII. The few times we actually care
about character length (eg limiting user-specified rule names to N
characters), we don't much care about performance, because they're
unusual checks.

So, I don't actually have any stats for you, because it's really easy
to just not index strings at all.

ChrisA

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Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-25 09:15 +0100
  Re: Article on the future of Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2012-09-25 09:26 -0400
    Re: Article on the future of Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-25 09:44 -0400
    Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-25 15:35 +0000
      Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 01:48 +1000
      Re: Article on the future of Python Ramchandra Apte <maniandram01@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 02:28 -0700
        Re: Article on the future of Python Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 05:39 -0400
      Re: Article on the future of Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2012-09-26 09:30 -0400
        Re: Article on the future of Python Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-09-27 00:44 +0200
        Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-27 00:44 +0000
          Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 15:37 +1000
            Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-27 06:01 +0000
              Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 16:08 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-27 13:59 +0000
                Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 00:32 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2012-09-28 01:22 +0000
                Re: Article on the future of Python Jason Friedman <jason@powerpull.net> - 2012-09-27 21:05 -0600
                Re: Article on the future of Python "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@tysdomain.com> - 2012-09-27 21:14 -0600
                Re: Article on the future of Python Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2012-09-27 22:37 -0500
                Re: Article on the future of Python Greg Donald <gdonald@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 22:50 -0500
                Re: Article on the future of Python Greg Donald <gdonald@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 23:12 -0500
                Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 14:37 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-09-28 08:52 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-09-28 08:52 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-28 10:31 -0400
                Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-29 00:58 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 09:14 -0600
                Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-29 01:20 +1000
              Re: Article on the future of Python Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 12:20 +0300
    Re: Article on the future of Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-25 12:13 -0400
    Re: Article on the future of Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-25 10:27 -0700
  Re: Article on the future of Python "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hellwig@gmail.com> - 2012-09-25 06:56 -0700
  Re: Article on the future of Python "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hellwig@gmail.com> - 2012-09-25 06:56 -0700
    Re: Article on the future of Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-25 18:25 +0000
      Re: Article on the future of Python 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-09-25 16:34 -0700
        Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-25 23:35 -0700
          Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-26 07:23 +0000
            Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 02:31 -0700
              Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 19:55 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 07:19 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 00:24 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 07:50 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 00:56 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 08:17 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 08:17 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-26 16:08 +0100
                Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 01:18 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 08:45 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 08:45 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-27 09:33 +0000
                Re: Article on the future of Python Alex Strickland <sscc@mweb.co.za> - 2012-09-27 12:43 +0200
                Re: Article on the future of Python Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 15:46 +0300
                Re: Article on the future of Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 09:06 -0600
                Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-27 17:03 +0100
                Re: Article on the future of Python Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 20:17 +0300
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-27 12:09 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-27 21:16 +0100
                Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 08:00 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-27 12:09 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-27 15:08 -0400
                Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-28 10:16 +0100
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 07:50 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 07:19 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-27 00:36 +0000
                Re: Article on the future of Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-26 09:52 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 03:04 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-26 10:32 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 11:35 -0700
              Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-26 14:21 +0100
            Re: Article on the future of Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 09:53 -0600
              Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 09:18 -0700
              Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 09:18 -0700
          Re: Article on the future of Python Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-09-26 00:17 -0700
          Re: Article on the future of Python Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 03:39 -0400
          Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 17:44 +1000
          Re: Article on the future of Python Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 04:11 -0400
          Re: Article on the future of Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-26 04:13 -0400
            Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 05:19 -0700
              Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 23:43 +1000
              Re: Article on the future of Python Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-09-26 09:08 -0700
              Re: Article on the future of Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-26 19:24 -0400
            Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 05:19 -0700
          Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-26 09:34 +0100
            Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 05:17 -0700
              Re: Article on the future of Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 17:14 -0700
                Re: Article on the future of Python Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2012-09-27 01:37 +0000
            Re: Article on the future of Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-26 05:17 -0700
          Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-26 09:37 +0100
          Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 18:44 +1000
          Re: Article on the future of Python Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 04:45 -0400
          Re: Article on the future of Python Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 04:47 -0400
          Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-26 10:01 +0100
            Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-27 00:40 +0000
              Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-27 02:10 +0100
          Re: Article on the future of Python Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 05:09 -0400
          Re: Article on the future of Python "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@tysdomain.com> - 2012-09-26 07:31 -0600
          Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-26 14:43 +0100
          Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 23:51 +1000
          Re: Article on the future of Python Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-09-26 09:05 -0700
          Re: Article on the future of Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-26 16:27 -0400
            Re: Article on the future of Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 18:38 -0700
          Re: Fwd: Re: Article on the future of Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-26 19:29 -0400
          Re: Fwd: Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 09:42 +1000
      Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-26 00:54 +0000
        Re: Article on the future of Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-25 18:04 -0700
          Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 14:10 +1000
            Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-26 05:16 +0000
              Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-26 16:02 +1000
                Re: Article on the future of Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-25 23:09 -0700
          Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-26 09:32 +0100
          Re: Article on the future of Python Hannu Krosing <hannu@krosing.net> - 2012-09-26 12:01 +0200
            Re: Article on the future of Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-26 09:01 -0400
              Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-26 14:28 +0100
              Re: Article on the future of Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-26 13:22 -0400
  Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-27 06:13 +0000
    Re: Article on the future of Python Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 08:11 -0400
      Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-27 14:25 +0000
        Re: Article on the future of Python Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 12:16 -0400
          Re: Article on the future of Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 17:59 -0700
            Re: Article on the future of Python Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 14:50 -0400
              Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-29 03:07 +0000
        Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-27 17:45 +0100
        Re: Article on the future of Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 02:49 +1000
        Re: Article on the future of Python Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 12:50 -0400
        Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-27 17:58 +0100
        Re: Article on the future of Python Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-09-27 09:53 -0700
        Re: Article on the future of Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-27 15:32 -0400
      Re: Article on the future of Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2012-09-28 08:06 +0100
        Re: Article on the future of Python Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 03:22 -0400
      Re: Article on the future of Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 05:08 -0700
        Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-28 12:54 +0000
          Re: Article on the future of Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 06:14 -0700
            Re: Article on the future of Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-28 16:33 +0000
    Re: Article on the future of Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-27 17:47 +0100
      Re: Article on the future of Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-27 17:59 -0700

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