Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #77547

Re: Python is going to be hard

Path csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!xlned.com!feeder1.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path <rosuav@gmail.com>
X-Original-To python-list@python.org
Delivered-To python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status OK 0.008
X-Spam-Evidence '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'defaults': 0.07; 'rewrite': 0.09; 'separating': 0.09; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.11; 'discuss.': 0.16; 'dislike': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'include.': 0.16; 'say.': 0.16; 'stuff,': 0.16; 'ui,': 0.16; 'unexpectedly': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'passing': 0.19; 'thu,': 0.19; 'code,': 0.22; 'example': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'print': 0.22; "aren't": 0.24; 'comparing': 0.24; 'earlier': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; 'nearly': 0.26; 'posts': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'easier': 0.31; 'about.': 0.31; 'comparison': 0.31; 'controlled': 0.31; 'sep': 0.31; "can't": 0.35; 'tool': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'point.': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'returning': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.38; 'anything': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'read': 0.60; 'show': 0.63; 'real': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'believe': 0.68; 'real-world': 0.68; 'balanced': 0.84; 'guts': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.92
DKIM-Signature v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=xN8o3t0W+aPfQBKqIGJAn0+YC824ames6nx8IFOTBA4=; b=iJEEWLnL/sBVMRIuTam74NzmgzJBuoB6jJwaqscoNTNexAAb9jGLSdnQ/gWadXI0Pq 2jPVg2j/D0X3jx8xLK7v8fUCtj0V/AxDdN91DxDk0MalUKiDQd4JedFaFuA1nDcOLK01 2kNJ/kzjzIMzzPJk6CZqim5R6s57z7dXpxQdmJwzCWLkFjEah1xnGbYHuU0TZyT3iyPn P2GiAy9HvpB6N/9/qPsgh6CSr1KKDnBwEUhRThTNQonx/jujBtnELuMYi6w01e7ZlGX5 X8Dh5fSEv9AdqCA9VWrqJBWMDnhoilZBkIdyxgcJNoujwk3KidcjY6X6n/l8FWOPnjdu D3zA==
MIME-Version 1.0
X-Received by 10.50.30.72 with SMTP id q8mr7160348igh.14.1409837410831; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 06:30:10 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To <e5201530-1941-4cec-8d87-870c929aaf17@googlegroups.com>
References <d9me0ap5s0s28qaeobbh6680gciel6c1og@4ax.com> <51acfec6-6b7b-4773-8d70-0360381bbed1@googlegroups.com> <mailman.13751.1409795794.18130.python-list@python.org> <d80e4c36-74e8-4850-8ad1-e357e895abcc@googlegroups.com> <mailman.13756.1409802577.18130.python-list@python.org> <4c873e02-93b1-4ad3-bc91-566a72b8e729@googlegroups.com> <mailman.13760.1409806953.18130.python-list@python.org> <99df9997-474e-4190-8179-6c1442b622a2@googlegroups.com> <mailman.13762.1409812788.18130.python-list@python.org> <e5201530-1941-4cec-8d87-870c929aaf17@googlegroups.com>
Date Thu, 4 Sep 2014 23:30:10 +1000
Subject Re: Python is going to be hard
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Cc "python-list@python.org" <python-list@python.org>
Content-Type text/plain; charset=UTF-8
X-BeenThere python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version 2.1.15
Precedence list
List-Id General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.13767.1409837419.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
Lines 23
NNTP-Posting-Host 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace 1409837419 news.xs4all.nl 2845 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:54303
X-Complaints-To abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref csiph.com comp.lang.python:77547

Show key headers only | View raw

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:
> How do each of these apply when comparing
> a. A program that defaults to passing and returning data structures and
>    uses print in a very controlled way
>
> b. A program that randomly mixes call/return with input/print

Considering that I've never seen anything that *randomly* mixes them,
I can't really say. But you clearly don't dislike print nearly as much
as your earlier posts imply, because it can be used in a "controlled
way" as your potent comparison point. So how about you show me some
real example code, something real-world that you hate, and show me how
you'd rewrite it to not use print() calls "randomly mixed" with other
stuff, and then we can discuss. I think we'll find that our views
aren't as much different as it would seem; both of us believe in
separating guts from UI, both of us believe that side-effect-free
functions are easier to comprehend than those that unexpectedly change
state, and both of us want to make programs that can be read and
reasoned about. The only difference is that I see print as an
important tool as part of a balanced meal, and you see it as something
distasteful that you regrettably have to include. But we both use it.

ChrisA

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Python is going to be hard Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-09-03 14:10 -0400
  Re: Python is going to be hard John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2014-09-03 18:17 +0000
    Re: Python is going to be hard Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-09-03 14:52 -0400
      Re: Python is going to be hard mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2014-09-03 22:37 +0100
  Re: Python is going to be hard Rock Neurotiko <miguelglafuente@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 20:16 +0200
  Re: Python is going to be hard Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@technologyhighland.invalid> - 2014-09-03 11:19 -0700
    Re: Python is going to be hard Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-09-03 14:50 -0400
  Re: Python is going to be hard MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-09-03 19:24 +0100
  Re: Python is going to be hard Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2014-09-03 13:28 -0500
    Re: Python is going to be hard Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-09-03 14:52 -0400
  Re: Python is going to be hard Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-09-03 11:33 -0700
    Re: Python is going to be hard Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-09-03 14:41 -0400
      Re: Python is going to be hard Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-09-03 12:49 -0700
  Re: Python is going to be hard Juan Christian <juan0christian@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 15:44 -0300
    Re: Python is going to be hard Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-09-03 14:56 -0400
  Re: Python is going to be hard Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-09-03 14:49 -0400
    Re: Python is going to be hard Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-09-03 11:55 -0700
      Re: Python is going to be hard Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@technologyhighland.invalid> - 2014-09-03 12:01 -0700
    Re: Python is going to be hard Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 13:11 -0600
      Re: Python is going to be hard Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-09-03 15:22 -0400
    Re: Python is going to be hard Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-09-04 12:11 +1000
  Re: Python is going to be hard Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 20:55 +0000
  Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 18:48 -0700
    Re: Python is going to be hard Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 11:56 +1000
      Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 19:10 -0700
        Re: Python is going to be hard Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 12:25 +1000
          Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 19:33 -0700
            Re: Python is going to be hard alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-09-04 10:29 +0000
              Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 06:08 -0700
          Re: Python is going to be hard Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-09-04 23:25 +1000
            Re: Python is going to be hard Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 23:55 +1000
      Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 20:22 -0700
        Re: Python is going to be hard Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 13:49 +1000
          Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 21:11 -0700
            Re: Python is going to be hard Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 15:02 +1000
              Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 23:23 -0700
                Re: Python is going to be hard Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 16:39 +1000
                Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 06:15 -0700
                Re: Python is going to be hard Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 23:30 +1000
                Re: Python is going to be hard Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-09-04 23:37 +1000
                Re: Python is going to be hard Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-09-04 15:04 +0100
                Re: Python is going to be hard Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-05 00:08 +1000
                Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 19:24 -0700
                Re: Python is going to be hard Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-05 12:30 +1000
                Re: Python is going to be hard Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-09-04 22:51 -0400
                Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 19:56 -0700
                Re: Python is going to be hard Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-05 13:08 +1000
        Re: Python is going to be hard Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-09-03 21:06 -0700
          Re: Python is going to be hard Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-03 21:15 -0700

csiph-web