Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #9960

Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits...

Path csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!feeder.news-service.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path <awilliam@whitemice.org>
X-Original-To python-list@python.org
Delivered-To python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status OK 0.001
X-Spam-Evidence '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python.': 0.04; '*not*': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'python': 0.08; '(there': 0.09; 'libraries.': 0.09; 'loop.': 0.09; 'tkinter': 0.09; 'wed,': 0.12; 'gui': 0.13; 'wrote:': 0.15; 'library': 0.15; '+1,': 0.16; '[at': 0.16; 'canvas.': 0.16; 'different,': 0.16; 'from:addr:awilliam': 0.16; 'from:addr:whitemice.org': 0.16; 'from:name:adam tauno williams': 0.16; 'gil.': 0.16; 'message-id:@linux-yu4c.site': 0.16; 'received:72.14.190': 0.16; 'received:72.14.190.87': 0.16; 'received:mail.wmmi.net': 0.16; 'received:wmmi.net': 0.16; 'reply- to:addr:awilliam': 0.16; 'reply-to:addr:whitemice.org': 0.16; 'subject:GUI': 0.16; 'written': 0.17; 'simpler': 0.19; 'solution.': 0.19; 'loop': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'gil': 0.23; 'versions': 0.23; 'received:72.14': 0.26; '(and': 0.27; 'sort': 0.28; 'beyond': 0.28; '+0200,': 0.30; '-1,': 0.30; 'project?': 0.30; 'threads': 0.30; 'toolkit': 0.30; 'looks': 0.30; 'least': 0.31; 'this.': 0.31; 'certainly': 0.32; 'actually': 0.33; "i've": 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.34; 'agree': 0.35; 'option': 0.37; 'thread': 0.37; 'some': 0.37; 'doing': 0.37; 'using': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'something': 0.38; 'should': 0.39; 'header:Mime-Version:1': 0.39; 'manually': 0.39; 'subject:with': 0.39; 'event': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'where': 0.40; 'apps': 0.63; 'perfectly': 0.64; 'ever': 0.65; 'show': 0.67; 'tap': 0.67; 'yourself': 0.68; 'us.': 0.69; 'header :Reply-To:1': 0.71; 'reply-to:no real name:2**0': 0.72; 'verified': 0.73; 'windowing': 0.84; 'html5': 0.91; 'swing': 0.91
Subject Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits...
From Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org>
To python-list@python.org
Date Wed, 20 Jul 2011 07:16:50 -0400
In-Reply-To <4E26A71C.2040101@jollybox.de>
References <e1c591ca-ff8e-46f1-8f88-a69ee178bed9@gh5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <4E26A71C.2040101@jollybox.de>
Content-Type text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Mailer Evolution 3.0.2
Content-Transfer-Encoding 7bit
Mime-Version 1.0
X-BeenThere python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version 2.1.12
Precedence list
Reply-To awilliam@whitemice.org
List-Id General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe <http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list>
List-Post <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.1294.1311160793.1164.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
Lines 48
NNTP-Posting-Host 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace 1311160793 news.xs4all.nl 23868 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:54489
X-Complaints-To abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:9960

Show key headers only | View raw

On Wed, 2011-07-20 at 11:59 +0200, Thomas Jollans wrote:
> On 20/07/11 04:12, sturlamolden wrote:
> > 5. No particular GUI thread synchronization is needed  -- Python has a
> > GIL.
> That's where you're wrong: the GIL is not a feature of Python. It is an
> unfortunate implementation detail of current versions of CPython. (and
> PyPy, apparently)

And this GIL is certainly *not* a synchronization solution.  

Even with a GIL you can hang yourself with threads - I've verified
this. :)

> > 6. Expose the event loop to Python.
> You can tap into the Gtk/GLib event loop. 

+1

> What do you propose? We know what happens when you write a fresh GUI
> toolkit: Swing and Tkinter show us.
> The only reasonable option to create a toolkit that actually looks good
> is to base it on the "usual" GUI libraries.

+1

> It is perfectly reasonable to be required to manually call some sort of
> > Is it worth the hassle to start a new GUI toolkit project?
> No.

+1, or -1, errr.. which ever one means I agree with "no".

> > Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
> > different, such as HTML5
> NO!!

Barf.

Of course, Gtk [at least experimentally] supports an HTML5 canvas.  A
good UI library provides a lot beyond painting-the-screen (there are
events, and packing/geometry, etc...).  So even if you use HTML5 you are
then going to lay something on top of that [JavaScript + JQuery...].

> Don't be silly. Even using a crappy windowing toolkit is a lot simpler
> than doing the HTML/JavaScript/HTTP/etc dance.

+1

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-19 19:12 -0700
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-07-19 22:34 -0400
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... lkcl <luke.leighton@gmail.com> - 2011-07-24 12:30 -0700
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-07-19 21:34 -0500
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-22 12:34 +1200
      Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-22 03:30 -0700
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2011-07-24 10:02 -0700
      Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-25 11:59 +1200
      Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-25 01:37 +0000
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2011-07-19 22:44 -0400
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 06:05 -0700
      Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 20:20 -0700
      Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2011-07-21 10:52 -0400
        Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-22 03:38 -0700
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-20 14:28 +1000
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2011-07-20 09:20 +0200
      Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-20 17:28 +1000
        Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 02:51 -0500
          Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-20 18:25 +1000
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-20 09:39 -0700
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 10:32 -0700
      Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Phlip <phlip2005@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 13:58 -0700
        Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-20 15:13 -0700
          Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Phlip <phlip2005@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 15:52 -0700
            Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-20 16:02 -0700
        Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Corey Richardson <kb1pkl@aim.com> - 2011-07-20 18:19 -0400
        Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-20 15:41 -0700
        Tkinter in Python has native widgets (was: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits...) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-07-21 11:00 +1000
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 01:02 -0600
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2011-07-20 11:59 +0200
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Johann Hibschman <jhibschman+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 07:16 -0500
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-20 06:47 -0700
      Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Mel <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2011-07-20 10:17 -0400
        Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-20 07:27 -0700
          Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 08:09 -0700
      Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2011-07-20 17:21 +0200
        Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-20 08:40 -0700
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-20 14:10 +0000
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-20 07:30 -0700
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org> - 2011-07-20 07:04 -0400
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-20 14:12 +0000
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-20 07:41 -0700
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-07-20 06:08 -0500
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... sturlamolden <sturlamolden@yahoo.no> - 2011-07-20 07:45 -0700
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org> - 2011-07-20 07:16 -0400
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2011-07-20 13:31 +0200
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 05:52 -0700
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 18:17 -0700
    Re: changing thread topics (was: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits...) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-07-20 20:38 -0500
    Changing subject sucks. Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Phlip <phlip2005@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 19:34 -0700
      Re: Changing subject sucks. Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-21 14:08 +1000
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2011-07-24 18:51 -0600
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-07-24 22:06 -0400
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 19:06 -0700
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 20:32 -0700
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2011-07-21 15:44 +1000
  Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-22 12:30 +1200
    Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2011-07-22 23:36 -0700
      Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-23 22:21 +1200
        Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2011-07-24 13:56 +1000
        Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-24 15:00 +1000
        Re: I am fed up with Python GUI toolkits... Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2011-07-24 16:24 -0700

csiph-web