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| From | Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> |
| Date | Fri, 26 Jun 2015 16:26:33 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting |
| To | Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> |
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Johannes, I agree with a lot of what you say, but can you please have less of a mean attitude? -- Devin On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> wrote: > On 26.06.2015 23:29, Jon Ribbens wrote: > >>> While you seem to think that Steven is rampaging about nothing, he does >>> have a fair point: You consistently were vague about wheter you want to >>> have encryption, authentication or obfuscation of data. This suggests >>> that you may not be so sure yourself what it is you actually want. >> >> He hasn't been vague, you and Steven just haven't been paying >> attention. > > Bullshit. Even the topic indicates that he doesn't know what he wants: > "data mangling" or "encryption", which one is it? > >>> You always play around with the 256! which would be a ridiculously high >>> security margin (1684 bits of security, woooo!). You totally ignore that >>> the system can be broken in a linear fashion. >> >> No, it can't, because the attacker does not have access to the >> ciphertext. > > Or so you claim. > > I could go into detail about how the assumtion that the ciphertext is > secret is not a smart one in the context of cryptography. And how side > channels and other leakage may affect overall system security. But I'm > going to save my time on that. I do get paid to review cryptographic > systems and part of the job is dealing with belligerent people who have > read Schneier's blog and think they can outsmart anyone else. Since I > don't get paid to convice you, it's absolutely fine that you think your > substitution scheme is the grand prize. > >>> Nobody assumes you're a moron. But it's safe to assume that you're a >>> crypto layman, because only laymen have no clue on how difficult it is >>> to get cryptography even remotely right. >> >> Amateur crypto is indeed a bad idea. But what you're still not getting >> is that what he's doing here *isn't crypto*. > > So the topic says "Encrypting". If you look really closely at the word, > the part "crypt" might give away to you that cryptography is involved. > >> He's just trying to avoid >> letting third parties write completely arbitrary data to the disk. > > There's your requirement. Then there's obviously some kind of > implication when a third party *can* write arbitrary data to disk. And > your other solution to that problem... > >> You >> know what would be a perfectly good solution to his problem? Base 64 >> encoding. That would solve the issue pretty much completely, the only >> reason it's not an ideal solution is that it of course increases the >> size of the data. > > ...wow. > > That's a nice interpretation of not letting a third party write > completely arbitrary data. According to your definition, this would be: > It's okay if the attacker can control 6 of 8 bits. > >>> That people in 2015 actually defend inventing a substitution-cipher >>> "crypto"system sends literally shivers down my spine. >> >> Nobody is defending such a thing, you just haven't understood what >> problem is being solved here. > > Oh I understand your "solutions" plenty well. The only thing I don't > understand is why you don't own a Fields medal yet for your > groundbreaking work on bulletproof obfuscation. > > Cheers, > Johannes > > -- >>> Wo hattest Du das Beben nochmal GENAU vorhergesagt? >> Zumindest nicht öffentlich! > Ah, der neueste und bis heute genialste Streich unsere großen > Kosmologen: Die Geheim-Vorhersage. > - Karl Kaos über Rüdiger Thomas in dsa <hidbv3$om2$1@speranza.aioe.org> > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-24 13:36 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-25 14:07 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 21:27 -0700
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-25 19:25 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 02:41 -0700
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 19:57 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-25 10:03 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-26 01:13 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-25 15:26 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-25 13:58 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 10:33 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-26 10:49 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 19:01 -0600
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-27 03:06 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-26 15:09 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-06-26 23:07 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-26 21:29 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-26 22:55 +0100
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-06-27 00:42 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 16:26 -0700
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-27 00:21 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-26 19:55 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-06-27 07:24 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-26 19:12 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 15:58 -0600
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-26 19:23 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-06-26 23:11 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 11:02 -0600
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-27 10:45 -0700
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-27 13:38 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 21:05 -0700
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-27 16:16 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 13:30 -0700
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-28 11:18 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 19:11 -0700
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 23:47 -0600
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-27 18:38 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 18:53 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-06-27 11:07 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 19:17 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-27 09:27 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-06-27 12:05 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 20:16 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-06-27 12:55 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-27 10:26 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-27 14:27 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-06-27 12:18 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 21:33 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 08:59 -0600
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-27 13:25 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2015-06-27 15:23 +0300
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-27 14:48 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-06-27 11:12 +0200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 09:09 -0600
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-28 03:35 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-28 03:58 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 14:16 -0600
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-28 13:41 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 08:58 +0100
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 09:07 +0100
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-06-27 10:39 -0400
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-27 12:38 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-27 13:22 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-28 04:51 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 09:05 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 11:21 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 23:59 -0600
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-27 09:26 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 16:52 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-27 12:08 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-28 04:50 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-29 15:52 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-30 13:00 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-30 12:19 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-07-01 04:17 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-07-01 04:33 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-30 18:37 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-07-01 09:38 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-30 12:39 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-07-01 04:59 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-07-01 05:20 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-30 23:25 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-07-01 08:06 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-28 14:21 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-29 15:46 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-06-29 20:49 +0000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-30 12:43 -0500
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-07-02 10:31 +1200
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-26 02:17 +0100
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 12:06 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 12:05 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-26 03:24 +0100
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 12:29 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Joonas Liik <liik.joonas@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 13:00 +0300
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 03:18 -0700
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-25 17:05 +1000
Re: Pure Python Data Mangling or Encrypting Randall Smith <randall@tnr.cc> - 2015-06-25 14:09 -0500
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