Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java)

From	Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Subject	Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java)
Date	2013-10-14 21:35 -0400
References	<mailman.1046.1381617489.18130.python-list@python.org> <l3hg3g$2hd$1@dont-email.me> <CAPTjJmoBQoS6ZyHqQkDwdB4fO1sufUMnZC+67c=0W8cg5Gz+5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.1087.1381800936.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 10/14/2013 7:11 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

> I'm not sure what you mean by all of these - I've known Python for
> only a (relatively) short time, wasn't there in the 1.x days (much
> less the <1.0 days). But according to its history page, the early 1.x
> versions of Python predate the widespread adoption of Unicode, so it's
> a little unfair to look with 2013 eyes and say that full true Unicode
> support should have been there from the start.

The first versions of Python and unicode were developed and released 
about the same time. No one knew that either would be as successful as 
they have become over two decades.

>> Old-style classes vs. new-style classes.
>
> By the time I started using Python, new-style classes existed and were
> the recommended way to do things, so I never got the "feel" for
> old-style classes. I assume there was a simplicity to them, since

Too simple. All user classes were instances of the userclass type. All 
user instances were instances of the userinstance type, or something 
like that. There were otherwise separate from builtin types. I have 
forgotten the details and have no wish to remember.

The system was usable but klutzy. I believe it was an add-on after the 
initial release. People wanted to be able to subclass builtins even back 
in 1.4 days, but Guido did not realized how to use the obscure metaclass 
hook to do so until 2.2 was being developed. Most core devs are happy to 
be rid of them (except when patching 2.7).

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

Thread

Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-13 09:37 +1100
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-13 03:38 +0000
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-13 15:34 +1100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-10-13 09:04 -0400
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-14 03:39 -0700
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2013-10-14 12:18 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 09:43 +1100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 10:11 +1100
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-15 08:50 +0000
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 08:48 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-14 18:31 -0700
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-14 20:02 -0700
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 13:26 -0700
          Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-15 21:46 +0000
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 10:45 -0700
              Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-16 18:42 +0000
          Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.demon.co.uk> - 2013-10-15 23:01 +0100
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 21:45 -0700
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 10:57 -0700
              Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 11:25 -0700
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-10-16 13:49 -0500
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 07:40 +1100
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 17:13 -0700
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 11:28 +1100
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-16 20:47 -0400
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 18:30 -0700
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-10-17 11:20 +0300
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 17:53 -0700
                Re: Python was designed Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-16 22:33 -0400
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-17 05:24 +0000
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-17 13:43 +0000
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 12:01 +1100
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-16 22:09 -0400
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-17 08:02 +0100
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 07:49 -0700
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-18 01:52 +0000
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 19:08 -0700
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 20:34 -0700
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-18 03:56 +0000
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-18 02:00 +1100
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-17 16:00 +0100
              Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-16 18:44 +0000
              Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 10:26 +1000
          Re: Python was designed Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-15 23:20 -0400
          Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 20:53 -0700
          Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 10:32 -0700
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-10-17 18:44 +0100
              Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 20:15 -0700
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-17 19:08 +0100
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 12:49 -0700
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-17 16:57 -0400
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-10-17 15:10 -0700
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 18:59 -0700
              Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-18 02:57 +0000
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-15 23:48 +0100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-10-14 21:35 -0400
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-10-14 21:50 -0400
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-15 08:21 +0100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 12:48 +1100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-14 19:11 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 13:19 +1100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-15 03:18 +0000
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 14:29 +1100
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-14 20:48 -0700
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-15 05:51 +0000
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-15 09:48 +0200
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 19:57 +1100
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-15 15:01 +0000
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 06:09 +1100
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-10-15 16:17 -0500
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-15 12:26 +0200
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-10-15 13:11 -0700
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-15 22:00 +0100
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-10-24 23:14 -0700
          Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 19:05 +0100
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-26 04:46 +0000
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-14 14:11 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-14 22:43 +0100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 09:45 +1100
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 17:18 -0700
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 23:49 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 18:15 +1100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 05:39 -0700
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 06:00 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-10-17 16:15 -0400
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-17 21:41 +0100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-18 03:14 +0000
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-18 15:12 +1100
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-18 04:45 +0000
          Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-18 15:53 +1100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-19 09:57 +0000
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-19 21:49 +1100
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 00:23 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2013-10-17 09:42 +0200
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 19:24 +1100
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-18 01:58 +0000
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-17 12:58 -0400
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 12:37 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-10-17 20:01 -0400
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-18 11:09 +1100
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 13:54 -0700
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-18 13:32 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-18 21:41 +0100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-18 22:26 -0700
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-19 16:35 +1100
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-21 02:07 +0000
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-10-20 22:21 -0400
          Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-20 21:44 -0700
        Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 17:56 +1100
          Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-10-21 09:05 -0400
            Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Lele Gaifax <lele@metapensiero.it> - 2013-10-22 09:38 +0200
              Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-23 08:16 +0000
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-23 06:36 -0400
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-23 14:21 +0000
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-10-24 00:31 +1300
                Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Lele Gaifax <lele@metapensiero.it> - 2013-10-23 17:56 +0200
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-18 13:56 -0700
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-20 23:44 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 18:01 +1100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-21 08:27 +0100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 18:31 +1100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-21 08:39 +0100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 18:43 +1100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-21 09:11 +0100
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-21 08:24 +0000
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Metallicow <metaliobovinus@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 01:39 -0700
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 01:43 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Metallicow <metaliobovinus@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 02:17 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 05:50 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 02:29 +0000
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-10-22 07:02 -0500
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Metallicow <metaliobovinus@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 22:31 -0700
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 19:55 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 20:19 -0700
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 17:13 +1100
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 00:51 -0700
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 01:12 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-26 06:19 +0000
      Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 17:36 +1100
    Re: Python was designed Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-26 10:36 -0700
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 23:59 -0700
  Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 12:24 -0700
    Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 22:31 +0100

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