Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!rt.uk.eu.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'guido': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; '(except': 0.07; 'builtin': 0.09; 'classes.': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'release.': 0.09; 'things,': 0.09; 'type,': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; 'assume': 0.14; '1.x': 0.16; 'builtins': 0.16; 'devs': 0.16; 'metaclass': 0.16; 'new-style': 0.16; 'old-style': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'simple.': 0.16; 'subclass': 0.16; 'subject:Java': 0.16; 'unfair': 0.16; 'unicode,': 0.16; 'usable': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'separate': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; '2.2': 0.24; 'days,': 0.24; 'rid': 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'initial': 0.24; 'versions': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; 'header:X -Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'that.': 0.31; '1.4': 0.31; 'obscure': 0.31; 'types.': 0.31; 'core': 0.34; 'subject: (': 0.35; 'classes': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'instances': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'too': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'little': 0.38; 'short': 0.38; 'sure': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'either': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'days': 0.60; 'even': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'full': 0.61; 'received:173': 0.61; 'first': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'developed': 0.63; 'become': 0.64; 'details': 0.65; 'believe': 0.68; 'realized': 0.68; 'wish': 0.70; 'eyes': 0.78; 'add-on': 0.84; 'adoption': 0.84; 'developed.': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; 'start.': 0.84; 'forgotten': 0.91; 'widespread': 0.91; '2013': 0.98 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 21:35:22 -0400 References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-59-117-133.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0.1 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1381800936 news.xs4all.nl 15948 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:52107 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:56834 On 10/14/2013 7:11 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > I'm not sure what you mean by all of these - I've known Python for > only a (relatively) short time, wasn't there in the 1.x days (much > less the <1.0 days). But according to its history page, the early 1.x > versions of Python predate the widespread adoption of Unicode, so it's > a little unfair to look with 2013 eyes and say that full true Unicode > support should have been there from the start. The first versions of Python and unicode were developed and released about the same time. No one knew that either would be as successful as they have become over two decades. >> Old-style classes vs. new-style classes. > > By the time I started using Python, new-style classes existed and were > the recommended way to do things, so I never got the "feel" for > old-style classes. I assume there was a simplicity to them, since Too simple. All user classes were instances of the userclass type. All user instances were instances of the userinstance type, or something like that. There were otherwise separate from builtin types. I have forgotten the details and have no wish to remember. The system was usable but klutzy. I believe it was an add-on after the initial release. People wanted to be able to subclass builtins even back in 1.4 days, but Guido did not realized how to use the obscure metaclass hook to do so until 2.2 was being developed. Most core devs are happy to be rid of them (except when patching 2.7). -- Terry Jan Reedy