Re: OT: This Swift thing

From	Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Subject	Re: OT: This Swift thing
Date	2014-06-04 22:43 -0400
References	(4 earlier) <lmlftv$6ii$1@speranza.aioe.org> <mailman.10703.1401891868.18130.python-list@python.org> <lmnbsn$jlv$1@speranza.aioe.org> <mailman.10717.1401920316.18130.python-list@python.org> <lmo9ph$610$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.10720.1401936204.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 6/4/2014 7:23 PM, Mark H Harris wrote:
> On 6/4/14 5:18 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 6/4/2014 10:53 AM, Mark H Harris wrote:
>>> The primary paradigm on this topic locally is that
>>> indents are bad because malformed or mangled code cannot be reformatted
>>> easily (if at all).
>>
>> Begin solution:':' as the end of a line means 'begin block; indent next
>> line'. If one is using tools that mangle, one can add end-of-block
>> comments: '# end, # end if, # if (end implied), or even just ##. In any
>> case, the stylized comment could mean 'dedent' and code could be
>> reconstituted with all indents stripped. There are probably programs on
>> PyPI to do that. End of excuse.
>>
>
>     Yup. Well, I've only been doing python coding for ~9-10 years, but
> I've never had this formatting problem.

The only problem I have seen is when people post code here with \t for 
indent. Many mail readers treat \t as a null char since it actually has 
no standard translation into screen space. This is one reason why PEP8 
recommends using spaces rather than \t for indent. On today's systems, 
the space saved with \t is not worth the trouble.

 > I viewed the entire debate as
> 'an excuse'. I'm going to do some looking on PyPI-- it would be nice to
> point folks to something concrete.  If its an excuse, then that puts an
> end to it.
>
> As long as I'm addressing an IDLE guy, what would you think of a
> feature for IDLE that would format python code with block delimiters
> automatically and visa versa ?

I would not include it by default, as I would not want to encourage 
block-commenting Python code. However, anyone could write an extension 
that would add 3 menu items: BlockIn (add block comment), BlockDent 
(re-indent according to block markers), and BlockOut (remove block 
comments). The editor Format menu would be the obvious place. One would 
not have to parse; instead let tokenize do that. Then BlockIn: add Block 
comment and Newline tokens before Dedent tokens; BlockDent: replace 
BlockComment Newline with Dedent. In either case, follow with 
untokenize. Simply removing block markers could be done directly. The 
block comment could even be user configurable.

(At the moment, untokenize does not properly reconstitue files indented 
with \t.)

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

Thread

Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 20:43 +0000
  Re: OT: This Swift thing Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-04 00:19 +0300
    Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-04 04:30 +0000
      Re: OT: This Swift thing Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-04 08:23 +0300
  Re: OT: This Swift thing Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 16:49 -0500
    Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-04 08:01 +1000
    Re: OT: This Swift thing "Eric S. Johansson" <esj@harvee.org> - 2014-06-03 19:22 -0400
    Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-04 09:29 +1000
    Re: OT: This Swift thing "Eric S. Johansson" <esj@harvee.org> - 2014-06-03 19:36 -0400
    Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-04 04:54 +0000
      Re: OT: This Swift thing Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-06-04 09:43 -0500
    Re: OT: This Swift thing Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2014-06-04 09:24 -0500
      Re: OT: This Swift thing Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-06-04 09:53 -0500
        Re: OT: This Swift thing Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-06-04 18:18 -0400
          Re: OT: This Swift thing Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-06-04 18:23 -0500
            Re: OT: This Swift thing Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-06-04 22:43 -0400
              Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-05 08:39 +0000
                Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 18:52 +1000
                Re: OT: This Swift thing Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-06-05 08:27 -0400
                Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 05:56 -0700
                Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-05 15:12 +0000
                Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 08:39 -0700
                Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 08:44 -0700
                Tabs (was Re: OT: This Swift thing) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-06-05 15:05 -0400
                Re: Tabs (was Re: OT: This Swift thing) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-06-05 18:23 -0400
                Re: Tabs (was Re: OT: This Swift thing) Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-06-05 20:52 -0400
        Re: OT: This Swift thing CHIN Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2014-06-15 03:08 -0700
    Re: OT: This Swift thing Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-06-04 09:00 -0600
    Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 01:26 +1000
  Re: OT: This Swift thing Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-06-03 19:39 -0400
    Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-04 01:53 +0200
  Re: OT: This Swift thing Andrea D'Amore <anddamNOALPASTICCIODICARNE+gruppi@brapi.net> - 2014-06-04 09:47 +0200

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