Re: Parens do create a tuple

From	Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: Parens do create a tuple
Date	2016-04-11 11:41 +1000
Message-ID	<mailman.10.1460339107.15650.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com> <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com> <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

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Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> writes:

> Fair enough. Let's instead say "commas create tuples", which is true
> in all cases except the singleton empty tuple. Is that near enough
> that we can avoid the detail?

It's a fine thing to say, because it's simply true. Commas create
tuples.

There are some tuples that cannot be created as a literal by comma. That
does not make the statement untrue.

They are not the *only* thing that creates tuples; parens can also
create tuples. So we should avoid false statements on that score.

> I'd rather be correct on the one-element case and wrong on the empty
> than the other way around.

To say “commas create tuples” is to say an unobjectionably true
statement about Python syntax. It remains true as one continues to learn
Python.

To say “parens do not create tuples” is to lay a trap which needs to be
de-fused at some point. Better IMO never to lay that trap.

-- 
 \         “It’s a great idea to come in unencumbered by dogma but you |
  `\        can’t also be unencumbered by evidence.” —Darren Saunders, |
_o__)                                                       2015-12-02 |
Ben Finney

Thread

Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-10 18:51 -0400
  Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 08:58 +1000
  Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 09:04 +1000
  Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-10 16:30 -0700
    Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:17 -0400
      Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-10 17:32 -0700
      Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-04-10 21:45 -0400
        Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-11 08:41 +0300
  one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:13 -0400
    Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-10 17:19 -0700
    Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-10 17:18 -0700
    Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 10:20 +1000
    Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:22 -0400
      Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-10 17:28 -0700
      Re: one-element tuples Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 10:31 +1000
        Re: one-element tuples Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:48 -0400
          Re: one-element tuples Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 10:56 +1000
            Re: one-element tuples Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-04-11 14:10 +0000
              Re: one-element tuples Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-11 10:11 -0400
                Re: one-element tuples Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-04-11 14:26 +0000
          Re: one-element tuples Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-04-10 18:00 -0700
          Re: one-element tuples Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-10 18:07 -0700
          Re: one-element tuples "Martin A. Brown" <martin@linux-ip.net> - 2016-04-10 18:08 -0700
            Re: one-element tuples Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-10 23:19 -0400
              Re: one-element tuples Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-04-11 09:57 +0300
              Re: one-element tuples Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-11 23:01 -0700
          Re: one-element tuples Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 11:36 +1000
            Re: one-element tuples Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-10 22:57 -0400
              Re: one-element tuples Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 14:10 +1000
                Re: one-element tuples Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-11 00:43 -0400
                Re: one-element tuples Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-10 21:54 -0700
                Re: one-element tuples Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 15:40 +1000
                Re: one-element tuples Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 22:07 -0700
          Re: one-element tuples BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-04-11 12:15 +0100
            Re: one-element tuples Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-11 15:12 +0300
              Re: one-element tuples Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-04-11 14:12 +0000
    Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 10:30 +1000
    Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-04-11 01:33 +0100
      Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2016-04-11 02:22 +0000
        Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 12:34 +1000
    Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 10:38 +1000
    Parens do create a tuple (was: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask]) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 10:45 +1000
    Re: Parens do create a tuple (was: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask]) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 10:50 +1000
    Re: Parens do create a tuple Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 10:57 +1000
    Re: Parens do create a tuple Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 11:04 +1000
    Re: Parens do create a tuple (was: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask]) Stephen Hansen <me@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-10 18:03 -0700
    Re: Parens do create a tuple (was: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask]) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-10 19:52 -0500
    Re: Parens do create a tuple Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 11:41 +1000
      Re: Parens do create a tuple Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-11 12:32 +1000
        Re: Parens do create a tuple Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-10 22:51 -0400
          Re: Parens do create a tuple Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-11 14:08 +1000
            Re: Parens do create a tuple Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-11 01:27 -0400
              Re: Parens do create a tuple Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-11 18:01 +1000
                Re: Parens do create a tuple Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-11 09:42 -0400
        Re: Parens do create a tuple Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 13:02 +1000
        Re: Parens do create a tuple Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-11 14:08 +1000
    Re: Parens do create a tuple Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 11:51 +1000
      Re: Parens do create a tuple Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-11 12:57 +1000
    Re: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask] Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-10 19:46 -0500
  Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-11 11:50 +1000
    Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-10 22:48 -0400
      Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-11 13:54 +1000
        Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Fillmore <fillmore_remove@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-11 00:03 -0400
          Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-10 21:46 -0700
            Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 22:18 -0700
              Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-10 22:42 -0700
                Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 23:57 -0700
          Re: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-11 17:50 +1000

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