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Re: anomaly

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On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 10:44:51 AM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:27 pm, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> 
> > The point is that all too often someone wants to defend a specific choice
> > the developers have made and cites some general rule or principle in
> > support, ignoring the fact that python breaks that rule/principle in other
> > area's.
> 
> "It's a free country, you can do what you like."
> 
> "No I can't, I'm not allowed to kill people."
> 
> Just because there are exceptions to a rule doesn't mean it isn't a general
> rule. A few exceptions are just exceptions, they don't invalidate the fact
> that "consenting adults" is a basic design principle of Python.

The solution to this is to find an overarching maxim that encompasses both.  This was already solved (in your example) with the Age they called the Enlightenment (and perhaps arguably with Kant).  The solution was that your liberty extends to the point another's begins -- a more scalable maxim than "freedom".

With OOP, the solution is not to slide by having sloppy design goals, it's to find a noble purpose.  OOP by itself has no goal other than to try to make a system of re-usable objects.  By itself it's like having a bow and arrow with no target.  I'm suggesting there's a target:  a data ecosystem for the exabytes of data that exists with the Internet -- not simulating graphical objects on the screen or trying to re-make the real-world in the virtual world.   These are missteps that perhaps can be explored in languages specially tailored for it (Simula, POV-ray, Erlang, etc.).

Mark

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Re: anomaly Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 10:42 -0600
  Re: anomaly Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 09:48 -0700
    Re: anomaly Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-10 18:21 +0100
    Re: anomaly Gary Herron <gherron@digipen.edu> - 2015-05-10 10:28 -0700
      Re: anomaly Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-11 13:19 +1000
    Re: anomaly boB Stepp <robertvstepp@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 14:12 -0500
      Re: anomaly Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2015-05-11 13:37 +0000
        Re: anomaly Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-12 02:35 +1000
          Re: anomaly Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2015-05-11 20:48 +0000
            Re: anomaly Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-12 12:18 +1000
    Re: anomaly Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-11 08:40 +0100
    Re: anomaly Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 17:44 +1000
    Re: anomaly Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-05-11 12:15 +0200
      Re: anomaly John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-05-12 17:47 -0700
        Re: anomaly Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 17:56 -0700
          Re: anomaly Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-05-12 19:16 -0700
            Re: anomaly Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 19:31 -0700
    Re: anomaly Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-11 11:40 +0100
    Re: anomaly Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-05-11 13:39 +0200
      Re: anomaly Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-11 14:58 +0300
        Re: anomaly Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-05-11 15:27 +0200
          Re: anomaly Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-11 17:03 +0300
            Re: anomaly zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 07:56 -0700
              Re: anomaly Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-05-11 20:32 -0400
            Re: anomaly Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-05-12 13:34 +0200
          Re: anomaly Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-12 01:44 +1000
            Re: anomaly zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 09:17 -0700
            Re: anomaly Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-05-11 20:33 -0400
            Re: anomaly Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-05-12 14:31 +0200
      Re: anomaly Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-11 22:34 +1000
        Re: anomaly Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-05-11 15:38 +0200
        Re: anomaly Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 00:13 +1000
        Re: anomaly Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-05-12 17:37 +1200
        Re: anomaly Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-05-12 13:55 +0200
          Re: anomaly Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-12 23:56 +1000
            Re: anomaly zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 08:34 -0700
              Re: anomaly Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-13 01:43 +1000
                Re: anomaly zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 20:39 -0700
              Re: anomaly Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-12 17:19 +0100
                Re: anomaly zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-13 08:19 -0700
              Re: anomaly Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 11:22 -0500
                Re: anomaly Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-13 13:58 +1000
              Re: anomaly Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 12:07 -0600
            Re: anomaly Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-05-12 16:23 -0400
            Re: anomaly Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-05-13 09:07 +0200
          Re: anomaly Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-05-13 12:19 +1200
            Re: anomaly Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-05-13 09:23 +0200
        Re: anomaly Gary Herron <gherron@digipen.edu> - 2015-05-12 09:07 -0700
    Re: anomaly Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-11 12:47 +0100
    Re: anomaly boB Stepp <robertvstepp@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 07:43 -0500
    Re: anomaly boB Stepp <robertvstepp@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 07:26 -0500
  Re: anomaly zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 17:48 -0700
    Re: anomaly Gary Herron <gherron@digipen.edu> - 2015-05-10 18:07 -0700
      Re: anomaly zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 18:18 -0700
        Re: anomaly Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 11:53 +1000
          Re: anomaly zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 19:09 -0700
          Re: anomaly Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 19:12 -0700
            Re: anomaly Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 12:20 +1000
        Re: anomaly BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-11 12:55 +0100

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